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Old 11-12-2013, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,892 posts, read 18,557,746 times
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On Monday Jose Fernandez and Wil Myers were named NL and AL Rookies of the Year.

NL Vote:
Quote:
Player Points 1st-place votes
Jose Fernandez, Marlins 142 26
Yasiel Puig, Dodgers 95 4
Shelby Miller, Cardinals 12 0
AL Vote:
Quote:
Player Points 1st-place votes
Wil Myers, Rays 131 23
Jose Iglesias, Tigers 80 5
Chris Archer, Rays 35 1

Today it was announced that Cleveland's Terry Francona and Pittsburgh's Clint Hurdle have been named AL and NL Managers of the Year.

It strikes me that the Manager of the Year Award is most often actually the "We Were Wrong When We Predicted That This Club Would Be As Bad This Season As It Was Last Season Award." Whoever is in charge when a team has a large but unexpected improvement, well, that is your manager of the year. Seems to me that better criteria than "We didn't see it coming" could be employed.
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Currently living in Reddit
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Matheny should've been a finalist, IMO. Fredi was a finalist primarily because Davey Johnson was a finalist for "Worst Manager of the Year."
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Clayton Kershaw of the Dodgers and the Detroit Tigers Max Scherzer have won the NL and AL Cy Young Awards. Neither represents a surprise of any sort. It is the second win for Kershaw who also got the nod for his 2011 season.
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
NEW YORK -- Pittsburgh Pirates center fielder Andrew McCutchen and Detroit Tigers slugger Miguel Cabrera have won baseball's Most Valuable Player awards.

McCutchen won the National League honor by a surprisingly wide margin Thursday. Cabrera took the AL prize for the second straight year by a comfortable gap over Mike Trout.

McCutchen received 28 of the 30 first-place votes, Cabrera drew 23 of 30 first-place votes.
Miguel Cabrera of Detroit Tigers, Andrew McCutchen of Pittsburgh Pirates win MLB MVPs - ESPN

First Pirates MVP since 1992 when Barry Bonds won his second award. Detroit has won the MVP award three straight seasons...Verlander, Cabrera, Cabrera. Before that the Tiger's last MVP winner was Willie Hernandez in 1984.
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Since the modern MVP Awards were instituted in 1931, 11 of the 82 AL trophies have gone to pitchers. 45% of those have been to Tiger pitchers...Hal Newhouser in '44 and '45, Denny McClain in '68, Willie Hernandez in '84 and Justin Verlander in '11.
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:12 PM
 
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anyone who says Trout deserves MVP is just being a contrarian. Cabrera had better numbers and was on a winning team (yes it matters)
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Old 11-15-2013, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Originally Posted by Aldous9 View Post
anyone who says Trout deserves MVP is just being a contrarian. Cabrera had better numbers and was on a winning team (yes it matters)
Wouldn't that be a matter of which numbers one relied upon when making the determinations? Cabrera had the better scoreboard stats, Trout had the better advanced metrics. Trying to tar all disagreement as "just being a contrarian" is trying to falsely set yourself up as the default position and cast dissenters as apostates. Before such a thing could be viewed as valid, you would need to submit your arguments as to why the scoreboard stats are superior to the advanced metrics. And that argument needs to be something more than..."I don't need no fancy dan nerd numbers", you would need to demonstrate why less compex information is better than more comprehensive information.
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Old 11-15-2013, 01:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Wouldn't that be a matter of which numbers one relied upon when making the determinations? Cabrera had the better scoreboard stats, Trout had the better advanced metrics. Trying to tar all disagreement as "just being a contrarian" is trying to falsely set yourself up as the default position and cast dissenters as apostates. Before such a thing could be viewed as valid, you would need to submit your arguments as to why the scoreboard stats are superior to the advanced metrics. And that argument needs to be something more than..."I don't need no fancy dan nerd numbers", you would need to demonstrate why less compex information is better than more comprehensive information.
Cabrera - .341 AVG .442 OBP .636 SLG 137 RBI 44 HR

Trout- .323 AVG .432 OBP .557 SLG 97 RBI 27 HR


It is not even close.
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Old 11-15-2013, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldous9 View Post
Cabrera - .341 AVG .442 OBP .636 SLG 137 RBI 44 HR

Trout- .323 AVG .432 OBP .557 SLG 97 RBI 27 HR


It is not even close.
Your response suggests that you either did not read my post carefully, or did not understand it. Above you present the traditional scoreboard stats, measurements crafted in an age before advanced understandings of value were made.

The most frequently employed of the new measurements is Wins Above Replacement Level (WAR) a statistic which not only incorporates all of the information you have provided above, but goes much further, making adjustments for home stadiums and including everything that a ballplayer does to contribute toward winning a game, baserunning and defense as well. You present only the offensive stats of the two players and that is obviously inferior to information which measures much more.

In terms of WAR, Trout compiled 9.2 to Cabrera's 7.2.

As with my previous post, the portion of it which you ignored, I ask that you provide us with an explanation as to why a judgment should be based on less rather than more information about a player's contributions to winning a game. Why should the MVP be based only on what he did at the plate? Why would we neglect what he did on the basepaths and in the field?
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Old 11-15-2013, 06:57 PM
 
1,496 posts, read 1,499,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Your response suggests that you either did not read my post carefully, or did not understand it. Above you present the traditional scoreboard stats, measurements crafted in an age before advanced understandings of value were made.

The most frequently employed of the new measurements is Wins Above Replacement Level (WAR) a statistic which not only incorporates all of the information you have provided above, but goes much further, making adjustments for home stadiums and including everything that a ballplayer does to contribute toward winning a game, baserunning and defense as well. You present only the offensive stats of the two players and that is obviously inferior to information which measures much more.

In terms of WAR, Trout compiled 9.2 to Cabrera's 7.2.

As with my previous post, the portion of it which you ignored, I ask that you provide us with an explanation as to why a judgment should be based on less rather than more information about a player's contributions to winning a game. Why should the MVP be based only on what he did at the plate? Why would we neglect what he did on the basepaths and in the field?
call me a traditionalist but I say, WAR? What is it good for? Absolutely nothing. Well, I wouldn't go that far but there's too much variability with WAR, especially when it comes to defensive stats. Maybe I haven't set aside the time to understand it fully. It's obviously a complicated formula that requires more understanding than the traditional stats. But, Cabrerra won the triple crown last year and you had people saying Trout was the MVP. If you win the Triple Crown and you're on a winning team you're a frickin MVP. And he had a better year this year.
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