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Old 01-13-2014, 04:22 PM
 
Location: California
2,015 posts, read 2,015,346 times
Reputation: 1775

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Seems to me the rules in place now are not enough of a deterrent. So what should be done now is on the first offfense you get a calendar year suspension. And when that calendar year is up, your contract is voided and you now have to renegotiate a new contract with the team that you were with when caught. That is if the team still wants you. If they don't they have a right to release you.

On the second offense, you are banned for life!! I think that should do it.

If the clean players are truly tired of the cheaters, they should ask their players union to agree to this on the next collective bargaining session.
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,113 posts, read 18,595,226 times
Reputation: 18730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just One of the Guys View Post
... and you now have to renegotiate a new contract with the team that you were with when caught. That is if the team still wants you. If they don't they have a right to release you.

.
What do you mean "have to renegotiate a new contract with the team that you were with when caught?" Do you mean that if the team decides that it wants you, you are forced to sign with them regardless of their offer? The MLBPA would never go for something like that, it would be re-establishing the labor relationship which prevailed before free agency, specifically, players being able to sell their talents to only one buyer.


If you do not mean having to sign with his pre-suspension team, then you are in effect declaring the player a free agent.

Also your proposal does not address the issue...what if the team does not want to renegotiate the contract and would be content with simply retaining the player at the contract rate?

I think what you might have meant was that the team with the offending player should have the option to retain him as per the existing contract, or void it and release him.
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:54 PM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,065,960 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just One of the Guys View Post
Seems to me the rules in place now are not enough of a deterrent. So what should be done now is on the first offense you get a calendar year suspension. And when that calendar year is up, your contract is voided and you now have to renegotiate a new contract with the team that you were with when caught. That is if the team still wants you. If they don't they have a right to release you.

On the second offense, you are banned for life!! I think that should do it.

If the clean players are truly tired of the cheaters, they should ask their players union to agree to this on the next collective bargaining session.
The players union will never agree to this period. You might want to assign a misplaced motivation for their reasoning but thats just all there is to it really. The way to getting rid of steroids is testing that actually works, and stiffer penalties. And it's a terrible idea to reward teams for having players test positive. The better idea is to penalize them with draft picks or make the team pay the remaining salary into revenue sharing or some other outlet.
Though I would be ok with a permanent ban on a second offense, or a quasi permanent ban like 3-5 years.
1st offense: 150 games
2nd offense: 700 games
3rd:done
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:20 AM
 
Location: California
2,015 posts, read 2,015,346 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
What do you mean "have to renegotiate a new contract with the team that you were with when caught?" Do you mean that if the team decides that it wants you, you are forced to sign with them regardless of their offer? The MLBPA would never go for something like that, it would be re-establishing the labor relationship which prevailed before free agency, specifically, players being able to sell their talents to only one buyer.


If you do not mean having to sign with his pre-suspension team, then you are in effect declaring the player a free agent.

Also your proposal does not address the issue...what if the team does not want to renegotiate the contract and would be content with simply retaining the player at the contract rate?

I think what you might have meant was that the team with the offending player should have the option to retain him as per the existing contract, or void it and release him.
Yes I do mean only with only the team you played on while cheating, if the team still wants you. If they don't, then you would be a free agent after the calendar year has passed.

If a player has a problem with it, maybe that might be what I would call a deterrent.
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:27 AM
 
Location: California
2,015 posts, read 2,015,346 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
The players union will never agree to this period. You might want to assign a misplaced motivation for their reasoning but thats just all there is to it really. The way to getting rid of steroids is testing that actually works, and stiffer penalties. And it's a terrible idea to reward teams for having players test positive. The better idea is to penalize them with draft picks or make the team pay the remaining salary into revenue sharing or some other outlet.
Though I would be ok with a permanent ban on a second offense, or a quasi permanent ban like 3-5 years.
1st offense: 150 games
2nd offense: 700 games
3rd:done
Why penalize the team? They didn't cheat, the player did, unless there is evidence that they did assist with the cheating. I know the union would never agree to it, but if the clean players are truly tired of this, then maybe they might want to add that. CBA's is always a give and take. You could give MLB that, and get something back in return. Maybe a urine test should be done during games? I just know something has to be done, the way it is now it not working.
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Hometown of Jason Witten
5,985 posts, read 3,739,078 times
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First offense: the usual slap on the wrist.

Second offense: the usual slightly harder slap on the wrist.

Third offense: lifetime ban.
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,113 posts, read 18,595,226 times
Reputation: 18730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just One of the Guys View Post
Yes I do mean only with only the team you played on while cheating, if the team still wants you. If they don't, then you would be a free agent after the calendar year has passed.

If a player has a problem with it, maybe that might be what I would call a deterrent.
The Union will have a pretty big problem with that. There is no chance it would be accepted by them. It is also probably illegal. Your system would force a player to work for an employer at whatever wage the employer sets with no right to decline the terms. That is akin to indentured servitude.
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:23 AM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,065,960 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just One of the Guys View Post
Why penalize the team? They didn't cheat, the player did, unless there is evidence that they did assist with the cheating. I know the union would never agree to it, but if the clean players are truly tired of this, then maybe they might want to add that. CBA's is always a give and take. You could give MLB that, and get something back in return. Maybe a urine test should be done during games? I just know something has to be done, the way it is now it not working.
The team should be penalized because they usually know and they tacitly approve by signing them in the first place.
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,113 posts, read 18,595,226 times
Reputation: 18730
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
The team should be penalized because they usually know and they tacitly approve by signing them in the first place.
"usually know" is not a concept around which a practical system may be built.

As an example, the Giants signed Melky Cabrera in 2010. To that point he was not linked to PEDs use in any manner, had not tested positive, had not been fingered by Jose Canseco or named in the Mitchell Report, had not turned in any performance which was outside belief.

After he was nailed and suspended, his suspension expired so that if they had wanted, the Giants could have brought him back for the 2010 post season.

Nobody wanted him, not the players, not the manager, not the GM. The Giants preferred to take their chances without Cabrera and wanted nothing further to do with him. Cabrera was left off the post season roster.

Where in any of this are the Giants deserving of some penalty?
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:19 PM
 
Location: California
2,015 posts, read 2,015,346 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
The Union will have a pretty big problem with that. There is no chance it would be accepted by them. It is also probably illegal. Your system would force a player to work for an employer at whatever wage the employer sets with no right to decline the terms. That is akin to indentured servitude.
How about if the renogiatiated contract is with an arbitrator? And only for the length of the original contract. If the team wants him back
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