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Old 04-11-2014, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,221,895 times
Reputation: 36087

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
"Unassailable proof?" You offered no evidence whatsoever, you just threw it out there like "hey, we all know whats really going on."

Absent any evidence, then yeah, you should keep your ungrounded opinions to yourself.

At least I have my answer, you have no legitimate reason for assuming racism was at work. That failed to stop you from informing us that it must have been the reason.
I offered what I observed. You've offered none to dispel it, except to scream and yell your usual argument of "There you go again", automatically rejecting forever everything offered by anybody that you disagreed with once., solely for the purpose of upholding your carefully cultivated persona of contrarian.

If I wanted to blame it on racism, I could argue that Trammel was not inducted because they'd have to induct Lou Whitaker, too, who has a higher WAR than any of the players you mentioned, and in fact the highest WAR of any eligible non-HoFer. But I don't go that far, because I based my arguments on what I see, not to go along with what some biased constituency might want to see.
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Old 04-11-2014, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
40,823 posts, read 18,553,245 times
Reputation: 18653
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
But I don't go that far, because I based my arguments on what I see, not to go along with what some biased constituency might want to see.
But you failed to present any argument, seen or unseen. You made an assertion, that Sutter was in the HOF and Smith was not because of racism. I asked for what evidence you had, you have presented nothing, not even what you have seen.

Further, what would "what I've seen" constitute anyway save that socio/political baggage which informs so much of what you present on these boards?
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Old 04-12-2014, 02:43 PM
 
3,326 posts, read 7,746,917 times
Reputation: 1967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil A. Delphia View Post
There's always been a payroll disparity. Always will be. The only thing that changed was the elimination of the reserve clause, forcing the owners to spend what they bring in on players.
I beg to differ.
The Kansas City Royals used to be among the highest payrolls on a consistent basis. The Yankees were just another team, nothing special other than some long-ago history.
Now, teams like the Royals have to build from scratch, through their farm system, wait ten years, hope at least a few of the best prospects pan out and don't move on to the Yankees or the other Yankees (that Boston team), or some such....
Nowadays, teams like the Yankees don't need no stinking farm system ( let the small markets fret over the dirty work), and just go out and buy themselves an all-star team year after year. A luxury very few teams have.

That, and interleague play are the two of the most shameful things about the MLB.
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:56 AM
Q44
 
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
895 posts, read 764,839 times
Reputation: 1761
Back to the topic, Pete Rose barrelling over Ray Fosse in the All Star game. So friggin' ridiculous and unnecessary.

Giving Tim McCarver a microphine, also ridiculous and unneccesary.

My #1 is the Self Righteous Baseball Writers. All of whom are sitting back NOW and crucifying the players that did steroids?!?!?
Where the hell were all of you when it was happening?? Nowhere! All the baseball writers jumped on the Home Run band wagon after the strike. Owners ignored everything because the juiced players were putting people back in the seats. Writers ignored it because they were all making money. Records falling right and left, guys hitting balls across state lines. Seriously? No questions asked why a player that used to weigh 195 and hit 7 HR's now weighs 235 and hits 40???
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Old 04-16-2014, 08:11 PM
 
698 posts, read 418,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Q44 View Post
Back to the topic, Pete Rose barrelling over Ray Fosse in the All Star game. So friggin' ridiculous and unnecessary.
The Rose-Fosse collision was in 1970. Any player on either team in the same situiation would have done the same thing. The All Star game was once an intense and hard-fought contest. It meant not just something, but A LOT to the players involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q44 View Post
Giving Tim McCarver a microphine, also ridiculous and unneccesary.
Certainly agree with that. But he's just one in a long line of worthless national media phonies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q44 View Post
My #1 is the Self Righteous Baseball Writers. All of whom are sitting back NOW and crucifying the players that did steroids?!?!? Where the hell were all of you when it was happening?? Nowhere!
All the baseball writers jumped on the Home Run band wagon after the strike. Owners ignored everything because the juiced players were putting people back in the seats. Writers ignored it because they were all making money. Records falling right and left, guys hitting balls across state lines. Seriously? No questions asked why a player that used to weigh 195 and hit 7 HR's now weighs 235 and hits 40???
You know, Nook Logan was a big steroids user. Hit a total of 2 career home runs. This steroids nonsense is not much different from the "Reefer Madness" of the 1930's (and a couple of other decades.)
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,498,921 times
Reputation: 15950
Quote:
Originally Posted by blktoptrvl View Post
3. The phillies abuse of jackie.
My father was, by choice, a self-employed dairy farmer; for 45 years, he rose at 5 AM to milk, and it broke his heart that neither of his sons saw much opportunity in continuing the operation.

But one of Dad's few diversions was baseball; and our location made him a natural Phillies fan. For obvious reasons, he identified with fellow farm boy Richie Ashburn. As it turned out, the two men died only three days apart, although Dad, who was then locked into a terminal struggle with multiple myeloma, probably was not aware of it.

Richie Ashburn was elected to the Hall of Fame in 1995. I was working in Greater New York at the time, and sometimes heard the comment that Ashburn would have been voted in sooner were it not for "the racist Phillies".

But Richie Ashburn did not don a Phillies uniform in regular season play until the spring of 1948, a full year after the Jackie Robinson race-baiting incident.

As I write this, both baseball and the nation itself are (hopefully temporarily) moving toward greater polarization, and a lot of self-proclaimed "progressives" are playing the race card for all it's worth.

I can only hope that the younger participants here will investigate the facts in full before they commit blindly to an agenda of Political Correctness which tends to oversimplify things purely for manipulative purposes.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 04-17-2014 at 07:41 AM..
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:35 AM
 
698 posts, read 418,580 times
Reputation: 854
There is nothing of merit to be found in excusification, cover-ups, or revisionism. In a baseball thread or anywhere else.
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Old 04-17-2014, 08:31 AM
 
Location: SC
8,791 posts, read 5,647,974 times
Reputation: 12805
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
But Richie Ashburn did not don a Phillies uniform in regular season play until the spring of 1948, a full year after the Jackie Robinson race-baiting incident.
There was no Robinson single "incident" with the Phillies, it was a series of incidents over several years. One of them being Ashburn spiking Robinson.

I was a black kid growing up in Philadelphia and I loved the Phillies (started going to the games in 64 - but really became a fan in the seventies), and I absolutely loved Richie Ashburn. Still think he was one of the greatest announcers/color men in the game and I miss his humor and his general personna. Him and Harry together has to be one of the best announcing teams in all of baseball.

But Richie did participate in harrasing Jackie. I did not know about the incidents until later in life but when I found out about it, it did not change my feelings about Richie, because he has admitted to it, announced that he regretted it, and that was good enough for me. People make mistakes; especially when they are young. Being able to admit that mistake - I think makes you a better person - not worse.
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:34 AM
 
698 posts, read 418,580 times
Reputation: 854
Ashburn left the Phils after the 1959 season and retired at 35 after hitting .306 for the 1962 New York Mets. In 1963. he became part of an outstanding broadcast team along with Bill Campbell and By Saam, a trio that put in eight years together. And unlike now, the club put some very interesting and exciting teams on the field at that time. The games were fun to go to and fun to watch and listen to. Never got to Baker Bowl, but except for the pillars, the sight lines at Shibe Park/Connie Mack Stadium were very good, and being in the field boxes was like being at a Spring training game. That was a great ballpark. The Vet by contrast was a cookie-cutter disaster. CBP is a big improvement over that at least.

On a broader canvas, people have to be judged in the context of their times. It is entirely possible that generations of the future will regard us as utter barbarians for mowing our lawns the way we do. Would that make us bad people? I would suggest that some who mow their lawns today are indeed bad people while some are not. Other factors would need to be brought into play before making the call.
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Old 04-17-2014, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
2,761 posts, read 2,366,336 times
Reputation: 4809
Pete Rose not allowed into the Hall of Fame...

The Pedro Martinez / Don Zimmer fiasco a while back was pretty pathetic too.
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