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Old 02-19-2014, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,292,936 times
Reputation: 36087

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
You still have yet to explain what exactly was shameful about canceling the games. It was shameful because....what? It showed MLB to be lilly livered cowards who let a little thing like an attack on the nation resulting in nearly 3000 deaths, stop them from staging a sporting event?

Why...that is what I have been asking, and you have been avoiding answering....why was it shameful to show respect for the victims? Why was it shameful for MLB to take the stance that the 9/11 events were more important than their playing their sport? They should hang their heads because.......???

Why is that action characterized by you as maudlin sentimentality? You only want ballplayers who are so tough that nothing will disturb their playing of their games?

How about answering that before you start dishing out the insults?
What if the attack had killed only 1,000 people? Or 100? Postpone the games for only one or two days? What is the mathematical formula that is to be used? Postpone games for the Newtown school shooting? Postpone games for a dip in the stock market? What else should b e postponed for such events? Close the post offices? Cancel city bus routes? Shut down the Comedy Central channel on Cable for a week, to make sure nobody slips out of enforced mourning and returns to daily routines?

I'm asking you for your mathematical formula, which is to be followed in such events. How about answering before you start dishing out the insults?
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Old 02-19-2014, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,033 posts, read 18,583,829 times
Reputation: 18681
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
What if the attack had killed only 1,000 people? Or 100? Postpone the games for only one or two days? What is the mathematical formula that is to be used? Postpone games for the Newtown school shooting? Postpone games for a dip in the stock market? What else should b e postponed for such events? Close the post offices? Cancel city bus routes? Shut down the Comedy Central channel on Cable for a week, to make sure nobody slips out of enforced mourning and returns to daily routines?

I'm asking you for your mathematical formula, which is to be followed in such events. How about answering before you start dishing out the insults?
You have once more ducked answering my question, providing questions rather than an answer.

I shall assume from this that you have no answer and that this is another case of your shooting from the hip without thinking, and then rather than admitting that this is what you did, going into a bunker mentality defense of a preposterous idea.

I shall continue to assume this until you actually answer the extremely simple question....what was so shameful about showing respect for the victims of 9/11? Why is that a black stain on the character of MLB?
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,292,936 times
Reputation: 36087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
You have once more ducked answering my question, providing questions rather than an answer.
I offered an opinion of sentiment, and held it to be my own, and I am not beholden to your or anybody else to justify it. If I have made any error in any statement of fact offered in support of my opinion, please bring it to my attention, and I will address it.

Last edited by jtur88; 02-19-2014 at 11:44 AM..
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,033 posts, read 18,583,829 times
Reputation: 18681
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I offered an opinion of sentiment, and held it to be my own, and I am not beholden to your or anybody else to justify it. If I have made any error in any statement of fact offered in support of my opinion, please bring it to my attention, and I will address it.
What is this? Some corporate style vacuous PR statement designed to carpet over your blunder?

Why can you just not admit that you put the idea out there without thinking it through and that if you had it to do over again, you would not have done so?

Clearly you have no valid reasons for your statement, otherwise they would have appeared by now.

As for the "beholden" business, that is nonsense. You brought your statement to a public forum which is designed to encourage debate about the ideas being presented. That someone would question a careless statement from you should not be taking you by surprise, nor is the expectation of a reasonable reply anything out of the ordinary.

You must really enjoy corners since you paint yourself into them with such robust frequency.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:57 AM
 
1,674 posts, read 2,041,419 times
Reputation: 1074
9-11 was an attack on all of America and a transitional moment in our history. Canceling a week's worth of entertainment events was not at all out of line, since it was clear mass transit and large gathering places were targets on the home front. I fail to see shame in taking a few days to reflect, gather ourselves, and allow the government, mass transit, and venues prepare adequate contingency and emergency plans. Sure they could have played ball after 3-5 days, but it's absurd to say we should be ashamed of it because baseball was put on hold for a whole week.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,033 posts, read 18,583,829 times
Reputation: 18681
Not mentioned so far has been the 1965 incident where Juan Marichal attacked Dodger catcher John Roseboro with his bat.

I would also list Reds manager Pete Rose, who despite no longer being able to produce at even an average level of performance for a firstbaseman, writing the name of Pete Rose the Reds player into their lineup for no justifiable purpose beyond his getting enough at bats to break Ty Cobb's hit record. In 1985, the year Rose broke the record, he batted .264 with two home runs in 501 plate appearances. This forced the real firstbaseman, Nick Esasky to have to play out of position in leftfield in order to be in the lineup, and it forced outfielder young Eric Davis to the bench to make room for Esasky.

Also available to play first on the Reds that season was the veteran Tony Perez who batted .328 /.396 /.470 in 202 plate appearances.

All of those players had their careers hurt by Rose's selfish pursuit. By playing himself rather than more qualified players who were available, Rose also was spitting on the concept of winning uber alles.
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:05 PM
 
1,674 posts, read 2,041,419 times
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In the '70's some Reds fans showered Astros outfielder Bob Watson with beer as he laid unconscious on the warning track after slamming into the wall. Now that's shameful.
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Old 02-19-2014, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
273 posts, read 280,565 times
Reputation: 235
This is an interesting thread. Someone who knows a lot about the history of baseball (and that's not me) should start its counterpart -- The Most Selfless Moments of Baseball.

A Greatest Moments thread would just degernate into fans naming when their teams won. And we all know the greatest moment in baseball history was when Mazeroski kicked the Yankees to the curb at Forbes Field in '60 so no need for further discussion on that point.
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Old 02-19-2014, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,292,936 times
Reputation: 36087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
What is this? Some corporate style vacuous PR statement designed to carpet over your blunder?

Why can you just not admit that you put the idea out there without thinking it through and that if you had it to do over again, you would not have done so?

Clearly you have no valid reasons for your statement, otherwise they would have appeared by now.

As for the "beholden" business, that is nonsense. You brought your statement to a public forum which is designed to encourage debate about the ideas being presented. That someone would question a careless statement from you should not be taking you by surprise, nor is the expectation of a reasonable reply anything out of the ordinary.

You must really enjoy corners since you paint yourself into them with such robust frequency.
I've been "thinking it through" for more than 12 years, and I believe today what I believed then -- that the knee-jerk reaction to postpone a week of baseball was as wrongheaded as the similarly knee-jerk reaction to invade Iraq. Just because it was done by eminent statesmen like Cheney and Selig does not make it right, and I'm not obliged to endorse what they did on your say-so as a part of some vacuous and flatulent pageantry of mindless gestures to support the closure industry.

I've never been held to account for my personal sensitivities with unassailable proofs of historical and mathematical facts and truths, so I'm a bit taken aback by this strange request. I'll just keep on preferring butter pecan ice cream, and you can take it or leave it.
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Old 02-19-2014, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,033 posts, read 18,583,829 times
Reputation: 18681
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I've been "thinking it through" for more than 12 years, and I believe today what I believed then -- that the knee-jerk reaction to postpone a week of baseball was as wrongheaded as the similarly knee-jerk reaction to invade Iraq. .
That is not a reason, that is a characterization. The rest appeared unrelated to the actual topic. Another dodge.

It has taken three posts to extract even the meaningless "knee jerk=shameful" from you. I think that it is safe to conclude that you are unable or unwilling to explain what was shameful about postponing entertainment events in the immediate aftermath of an attack on the nation.
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