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View Poll Results: Are the World Series baseballs juiced?
Yes 5 27.78%
Maybe 5 27.78%
No 8 44.44%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-30-2017, 01:06 PM
 
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Last nights game 5 was nuts. A great game but it looked like an arena football version of baseball than actual baseball. The balls keep flying out. The WS home run record has already been shattered... in game 5. Usually good pitching stops good hitting but in this series the balls are flying around like they are made of rubber. I’m not much for conspiracy theories but I wouldn’t be surprised if MLB juiced the balls for this World Series.


We had a well-pitched game tonight from both sides," Astros pitching coach Brent Strom said after Game 4, per Tom Verducci of Sports Illustrated. "I just want to know why? Why in the world would the baseballs in the World Series be different? Because you can see the difference. You can feel it. I don't understand it at all."


And this is coming from the winning coach of the Astros.


2017 World Series Enters All-Time Elite Due to Alleged Juiced Balls, HR Record | Bleacher Report
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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If the ball is juiced, and we do not know that it is or isn't, then it has been juiced for the entire season, not just in the post season. The record number of home runs in the Series is reflective of the record number of home runs in the regular season.
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Old 10-30-2017, 01:51 PM
 
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The ball being smother or slicker doesn't mean juiced but it certainly could lead to slightly less control and effectiveness of breaking balls
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Old 10-30-2017, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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The thing about juiced balls....MLB cannot do it without it being detected. Far too many of the balls wind up in public hands as a consequence of fouls, giveaways or purchasing them in the club's store. If someone wished to conduct a scientific dissection of 2017 balls and compare them to balls from previous seasons, getting the balls to do so would not represent a problem.

The ball has been juiced twice...in 1911, and again in 1930. On both of those occasions, MLB announced the alterations in advance, they didn't try and sneak them in clandestinely. In 1931 they returned to a less lively ball...and this was also announced before the season.

I don't pretend to know with certainty one way or the other...it is possible that something we don't know about yet is responsible for the increased home runs this year. They may be juiced, but I don't think we can safely assume this.
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Old 10-30-2017, 03:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
The thing about juiced balls....MLB cannot do it without it being detected. Far too many of the balls wind up in public hands as a consequence of fouls, giveaways or purchasing them in the club's store. If someone wished to conduct a scientific dissection of 2017 balls and compare them to balls from previous seasons, getting the balls to do so would not represent a problem.

The ball has been juiced twice...in 1911, and again in 1930. On both of those occasions, MLB announced the alterations in advance, they didn't try and sneak them in clandestinely. In 1931 they returned to a less lively ball...and this was also announced before the season.

I don't pretend to know with certainty one way or the other...it is possible that something we don't know about yet is responsible for the increased home runs this year. They may be juiced, but I don't think we can safely assume this.
MLB keeps denying it, but MLB denies a lot of things they are afraid will make them look bad. The baseballs are surely different in 2017 than they've been in the past, and the result is homers. Lots and lots of homers. Ben Lindbergh wrote this summer that the juiced ball is back, and had the study to back that assertion up. Rob Arthur built upon that piece with his own study, similarly concluding that the balls were what's different and causing these homers.

Dallas Keuchel said the balls are juiced following a World Series game his team won, and explained that MLB had done this to make sure the games were more exciting and people stuck around since anything could happen in one swing. And now more players participating in the World Series say the baseballs are slicker, and causing sliders to flatten out:

This all happened after MLB commissioner Rob Manfred discussed that fans love homers. Coincidence?


https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2017/10...d-slick-homers
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Old 10-30-2017, 03:12 PM
 
355 posts, read 324,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggunsmallbrains View Post
Last nights game 5 was nuts. A great game but it looked like an arena football version of baseball than actual baseball. The balls keep flying out. The WS home run record has already been shattered... in game 5. Usually good pitching stops good hitting but in this series the balls are flying around like they are made of rubber. I’m not much for conspiracy theories but I wouldn’t be surprised if MLB juiced the balls for this World Series.


We had a well-pitched game tonight from both sides," Astros pitching coach Brent Strom said after Game 4, per Tom Verducci of Sports Illustrated. "I just want to know why? Why in the world would the baseballs in the World Series be different? Because you can see the difference. You can feel it. I don't understand it at all."


And this is coming from the winning coach of the Astros.


2017 World Series Enters All-Time Elite Due to Alleged Juiced Balls, HR Record | Bleacher Report
The balls being slicker may mean they were not treated with Mississippi Mud, or it was not done properly. They are treated with the substance for the reason Yu Darvish stated in the article. It is easier to grip the ball for the finesse handle that pitchers require. Slick balls have nothing to do with how far they carry. Furthermore, “juiced” is an idiom. There is not literally a liquid substance injected. Balls that carry further may have a larger inner core making them more dense and capable of traveling further after impact with a bat.

I like how The Bleacher Report managed to slide in the fact there are a record number of home runs in the regular season, but failed to mention the exponential increase in strikeouts. A well-known and respected counterargument that attempts to debunk the “juiced ball” theory is that batters have strayed away from hitting fundamentals of making contact to reach base and advance runners and are taking an all or nothing approach (that is strikeout or home run) to their plate appearance at an alarming rate.

If the article wanted to spend time quoting Verlander on the difficulty of signing balls with this alleged new texture, they should have touched on the manufacturing process described above.
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Old 10-30-2017, 05:59 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
35,383 posts, read 16,988,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azmemories View Post
The balls being slicker may mean they were not treated with Mississippi Mud, or it was not done properly. They are treated with the substance for the reason Yu Darvish stated in the article. It is easier to grip the ball for the finesse handle that pitchers require. Slick balls have nothing to do with how far they carry. Furthermore, “juiced” is an idiom. There is not literally a liquid substance injected. Balls that carry further may have a larger inner core making them more dense and capable of traveling further after impact with a bat.

I like how The Bleacher Report managed to slide in the fact there are a record number of home runs in the regular season, but failed to mention the exponential increase in strikeouts. A well-known and respected counterargument that attempts to debunk the “juiced ball” theory is that batters have strayed away from hitting fundamentals of making contact to reach base and advance runners and are taking an all or nothing approach (that is strikeout or home run) to their plate appearance at an alarming rate.

If the article wanted to spend time quoting Verlander on the difficulty of signing balls with this alleged new texture, they should have touched on the manufacturing process described above.
Thank you for calling my attention to the testing report. Did you read the entire thing? I did and it is hardly what anyone would call "conclusive."

From the linked article:
Quote:
While none of these attributes in isolation could explain the increase in home runs that we saw in the summer of 2015, in combination, they can.
Do you see the fault in the logic here? That while testing failed to turn up a single difference which could explain the hike in the home run rates, if we consider all those failed tests together they somehow become positive.

Further, the differences uncovered in the tests indicated that some balls could be said to add 1.5 feet to their flight, others up to 3.1 feet. Are we to conclude that the record number of home runs have come about by adding 3.1 feet to the average drive?

Finally, the article was fair minded and included the case against the ball being altered. They cited MLB's official denial of any changes, and added the results of the official testing authorized by MLB, which was:

Quote:
...previously unreleased document combining reports on two testing periods produced by MLB’s official ball-testing facility, the Baseball Research Center at the University of Massachusetts Lowell, which summarized the results of ball-testing conducted at the 2016 All-Star break and in February 2017. The 2016 report concluded that: "There is no evidence from the results of this study that the performance of the 2016 regular-season baseballs … would have resulted in any difference in on-field performance from those used during recent seasons."
So....we still don't have a reliable answer.
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Island of Misfit Toys
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Yes, the ball all season has been changed in some way. The WS/Play-offs may have had more manipulation to promote these crazy games. Either way it's clear something is up.
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:49 AM
 
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The newer balls have higher CORs and lower circumferences and seam heights, which would be estimated to add an average of 7.1 feet to their distance, equivalent to the effect we would expect to stem from a 1.43 mph difference in exit speed. Although those differences don’t sound enormous, Nathan has noted that "a tiny change in exit speed can lead to much larger changes in the number of home runs." Last July, he calculated that an exit-speed increase of 1.5 mph would be sufficient to explain the rise in home runs to that point, which means that the 1.43 mph effective difference that Lichtman’s analysis uncovered could comport almost exactly with the initial increase in home runs. Lichtman calculates that a COR increase of this size, in this sample, falls 2.6 standard deviations from the mean, which means that it’s extremely unlikely to have happened by chance.

https://www.theringer.com/2017/6/14/...l-155cd21108bc

7 feet is the difference between a warning track shot and a homer. Plus, lower seams means less movement for the pitchers.

Last edited by biggunsmallbrains; 11-01-2017 at 12:00 PM..
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Old 11-01-2017, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
35,383 posts, read 16,988,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggunsmallbrains View Post
The newer balls have higher CORs and lower circumferences and seam heights, which would be estimated to add an average of 7.1 feet to their distance, equivalent to the effect we would expect to stem from a 1.43 mph difference in exit speed. Although those differences don’t sound enormous, Nathan has noted that "a tiny change in exit speed can lead to much larger changes in the number of home runs." Last July, he calculated that an exit-speed increase of 1.5 mph would be sufficient to explain the rise in home runs to that point, which means that the 1.43 mph effective difference that Lichtman’s analysis uncovered could comport almost exactly with the initial increase in home runs. Lichtman calculates that a COR increase of this size, in this sample, falls 2.6 standard deviations from the mean, which means that it’s extremely unlikely to have happened by chance.

https://www.theringer.com/2017/6/14/...l-155cd21108bc

7 feet is the difference between a warning track shot and a homer. Plus, lower seams means less movement for the pitchers.
You have selectively quoted the article to support a single position. If one reads the entire piece, one also finds:
Quote:
It’s likely that the record home run rate has more than one contributing cause, so the single smoking gun that addresses every issue is probably a pipe dream. One proposed explanation that’s come to be known as the "air-ball revolution" — a purported data-driven trend toward hitters elevating their swings and batted balls — is particularly persuasive
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