U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Baseball
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-17-2018, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
36,971 posts, read 17,444,005 times
Reputation: 16805

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Copanut View Post
You got a good player and a great guy. At 31, he may be declining a little, but I expect the new scenery to give him a better outlook. The last two years with all the gutting the ownership did had to wear on him and everyone in the clubhouse..
I have been impressed with how intelligent and articulate McCutchen has been in public interviews and writings. In that sense it should be a pleasure having him around. In terms of how all this fits with what the Giants need to be doing as a team, I'm less enthusiastic.

Please don't take this as gloating, but I think the most one sided trade in their favor that SF ever made was with Pittsburgh. That was when we sent you Armando Rios and Ryan Vogelsong in exchange for Jason Schmidt.

Schmidt went on to have the best part of his career with the Giants:
Pitt: 44-47 4.39
SF: 78-37 3.36
LA: 3-6 6.02
ATL: 5-6 6.45

By coincidence the Giants were playing the Pirates at the time of the trade. In his first game as a Pirate, Rios made an error which contributed to a Giants win. In his second game he attempted to make a sliding catch in the outfield, missed it, allowing a run to score, and busted his ankle, not playing anymore that season. He was lousy when he came back and was released by the Pirates the following year. Schmidt pitched in one of those games and won, giving up one run in 7 innings.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-17-2018, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Great White North Hills
11,021 posts, read 13,639,045 times
Reputation: 8455
I don't know, what did we get for Bonds? Cutch may not have the stats of Bonds, but most here were happy to see Barry leave. He would only talk to the national press, refused to autograph baseballs for a fundraiser, and a million other a-hole things. Good player, lousy human being. Cutch on the other hand, is a solid citizen, my favorite all time Pirate right behind Clemente, let's make him a 1-A.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2018, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
36,971 posts, read 17,444,005 times
Reputation: 16805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Copanut View Post
I don't know, what did we get for Bonds? Cutch may not have the stats of Bonds, but most here were happy to see Barry leave. He would only talk to the national press, refused to autograph baseballs for a fundraiser, and a million other a-hole things. Good player, lousy human being. Cutch on the other hand, is a solid citizen, my favorite all time Pirate right behind Clemente, let's make him a 1-A.
Bonds came to SF as a free agent. I suppose the Pirates got a compensation pick in the draft, but I've no idea what they did with it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-17-2018, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Great White North Hills
11,021 posts, read 13,639,045 times
Reputation: 8455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Bonds came to SF as a free agent. I suppose the Pirates got a compensation pick in the draft, but I've no idea what they did with it.

You're right, long time ago. I just recall Bonds making a lousy throw to home and couldn't throw out Sid Bream coming from first. That started our 20 year under 500 streak. We are 2 years into our next one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2018, 09:02 AM
 
3,576 posts, read 1,068,608 times
Reputation: 3732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
The Giants plan seems to be to radiate the appearance of being competitive in 2018. They won 64 games in 2017 and would need to improve by 25 wins or more to have a shot at the wild card in 2018. Longoria and McCutchen do not constitute a 25 win improvement, more like five or six more wins.
This is a faulty way to look at it.
Last year's performance was last year's performance
If everyone performs in 2018 like they did in 2017 and they added McCutchen and Longoria, you'd be closer to right. But, that's not how it works.

The easiest example is that Bumgarner is probably going to be about twice as good this year

The projections available at FanGraphs have the Giants on the cusp of the wild card.
https://www.fangraphs.com/depthchart...tion=Standings

A legitimate time to go for it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2018, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
36,971 posts, read 17,444,005 times
Reputation: 16805
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBeisbol View Post
This is a faulty way to look at it.
Last year's performance was last year's performance
If everyone performs in 2018 like they did in 2017 and they added McCutchen and Longoria, you'd be closer to right. But, that's not how it works.

The easiest example is that Bumgarner is probably going to be about twice as good this year

The projections available at FanGraphs have the Giants on the cusp of the wild card.
https://www.fangraphs.com/depthchart...tion=Standings

A legitimate time to go for it.
Hey....my statement was confined to the difference that the two players would make, not a projection of the teams total wins. It wasn't a faulty way to look at it, however yours was a faulty way to read it since you are arguing with something which wasn't there.

And hoping that everyone is better in 2018 isn't a plan of any sort, it is a hope.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2018, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
36,971 posts, read 17,444,005 times
Reputation: 16805
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBeisbol View Post

The projections available at FanGraphs have the Giants on the cusp of the wild card.
https://www.fangraphs.com/depthchart...tion=Standings
Looking at the projections for 2018, FanGraphs has only ten of the thirty teams finishing with a .500 record or better.

Is this another sign of a widening gulf between the haves and have nots?

Number of Teams Finishing at .500 or better:
2012 - 17
2013 - 16
2014 - 15
2015 - 16
2016 - 16
2017 - 12

2018 - 10?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-19-2018, 12:35 AM
 
3,576 posts, read 1,068,608 times
Reputation: 3732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Hey....my statement was confined to the difference that the two players would make, not a projection of the teams total wins.
That's the problem, though.

You're talking about how many games this year's team needs to make up by looking at a totally different team. Might as well look at 1999.
This year's team isn't competing with last years' and they aren't penalized 25 games because of what happened last year.



Quote:
And hoping that everyone is better in 2018 isn't a plan of any sort, it is a hope.
I didn't say anything about hope.
Quote:
yours was a faulty way to read it since you are arguing with something which wasn't there.


If they expect this team to be close to the wild card, then these moves make sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-19-2018, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
36,971 posts, read 17,444,005 times
Reputation: 16805
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBeisbol View Post
That's the problem, though.

You're talking about how many games this year's team needs to make up by looking at a totally different team. Might as well look at 1999.
.
But it is not a totally different team, it is mostly the same team with a few of the components changed. A totally different team would require replacing the entire roster.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-19-2018, 07:30 AM
 
3,576 posts, read 1,068,608 times
Reputation: 3732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
But it is not a totally different team, it is mostly the same team with a few of the components changed. A totally different team would require replacing the entire roster.
Each player is a year older, has a different talent level, etc.
Not one of them will have the same season they had a year ago.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Baseball
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top