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Old 08-27-2008, 05:44 PM
Status: "America first!" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Suburban Dallas
52,576 posts, read 47,711,637 times
Reputation: 33659

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHS89 View Post
Saw this line somewhere else: Rays fans can't even fill a bandwagon halfway.
Think about this. The Houston Astros took a lot of years to establish themselves and to find an identity. They were first known as the team that played in the first indoor stadium in the world (the Astrodome). It took the team eighteen seasons before they would win their first division title. Since then, they've won a few more and finally entered their first World Series in 2005. Their fan support actually improved in 2000 when they moved to Minute Maid Park, which is certainly a better place for baseball than the 'Dome ever was. All this is why the Rays and Tampa-St Pete fans shouldn't give up hope just ten years in. Traditions take time.

Is Houston a baseball town?? I believe it is, but it's just not in the top half dozen MLB cities and not quite a great baseball town. Good one? Yes. It's just above the moderate level, and it's not bad, and it only helps when three million fans have gone through the turnstiles four times in the last eight years, and 2.9 million on one other occasion during that same time. In evaluating 46 years of baseball there, Houston has come a long way from skeeter-riddled Colt Stadium (the franchise used to be called the Colt .45s). They've had legendary players from Nolan Ryan to Mike Scott, Jose Cruz to Cesar Cedeno, and from Jeff Bagwell to Craig Biggio. The fans are more passionate than ever.
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Old 08-27-2008, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Saginaw, MI
734 posts, read 2,607,877 times
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Detroit fans stick with the team because of the tradition and history, even though we may not always necessarily have a great team over the years.
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:01 PM
 
1,251 posts, read 3,298,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by case44 View Post
Think about this. The Houston Astros took a lot of years to establish themselves and to find an identity. They were first known as the team that played in the first indoor stadium in the world (the Astrodome). It took the team eighteen seasons before they would win their first division title. Since then, they've won a few more and finally entered their first World Series in 2005. Their fan support actually improved in 2000 when they moved to Minute Maid Park, which is certainly a better place for baseball than the 'Dome ever was. All this is why the Rays and Tampa-St Pete fans shouldn't give up hope just ten years in. Traditions take time.
Let's compare the first 10 years, since Tampa's eleventh season final figures aren't in.

The Astros exceeded the league average in 6 of those years. Houston Astros Attendance Records by Baseball Almanac
The years they didn't, they appeared to have come at least within 75% or so of average. I really didn't do the math.

The Rays have exceeded the league average exactly once, in their first year. Tampa Bay Devil Rays Attendance Records by Baseball Almanac
The years they didn't, they barely drew 50-60% league average. Didn't even draw 50% in three of those seasons. Almost a million fans less in season two compared to season one. On TV, that gets you cancelled.

THIS season, they're contending to break the decade+ long Yankee/Red Sox stranglehold in the AL East, they're a media darling and probably the best story in baseball, and they're still barely breaking 50% capacity. Like I mentioned, can't even fill a bandwagon.
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:14 PM
Status: "America first!" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Suburban Dallas
52,576 posts, read 47,711,637 times
Reputation: 33659
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHS89 View Post
Let's compare the first 10 years, since Tampa's eleventh season final figures aren't in.

The Astros exceeded the league average in 6 of those years. Houston Astros Attendance Records by Baseball Almanac
The years they didn't, they appeared to have come at least within 75% or so of average. I really didn't do the math.

The Rays have exceeded the league average exactly once, in their first year. Tampa Bay Devil Rays Attendance Records by Baseball Almanac
The years they didn't, they barely drew 50-60% league average. Didn't even draw 50% in three of those seasons. Almost a million fans less in season two compared to season one. On TV, that gets you cancelled.

THIS season, they're contending to break the decade+ long Yankee/Red Sox stranglehold in the AL East, they're a media darling and probably the best story in baseball, and they're still barely breaking 50% capacity. Like I mentioned, can't even fill a bandwagon.

Good finds, my friend.
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Old 08-27-2008, 11:02 PM
 
5,816 posts, read 15,846,562 times
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Good thread. I do have a couple of corrections on the OP's factual info:

Miller Park is not smaller than Fenway Park. Fenway's capacity of 39,605 gives it the fewest seats in the majors. Even that number includes recent add-ons. Until a few years ago, the seating capacity was more like 35k.

"The Year of the Goat." If this is referring to the Cubs' infamous goat incident, that actually happened during the World Series in 1945, the last year the Cubbies were in the Series, not the last time they won it in '08.

But, good idea for a thread. I agree with the cities people have discussed already. Interesting that most of them are older cities in the Northeast or Midwest. On the other hand, it was good to get a reminder of all the great stars who have played in Houston. I'd add J.R. Richard to that list. What an amazing career he could have had if not for his stroke.

I'm thinking that the main reason that Tampa, Phoenix, etc., don't do so well is that they have too many transplants who aren't going to get highly enthusiastic about the local teams, since they're already fans of the teams in cities they have moved from It will be interesting to see what happens over time, after those clubs have been around long enough to develop their own local following. It could well be like the enthusiasm Miami fans have for the Dolphins in the NFL. It takes time, though. Keep in mind that the Dolphins have been around for nearly 50 years. With all those transplants, the hometown fan base does not develop overnight.
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Old 08-27-2008, 11:50 PM
 
1,643 posts, read 4,422,963 times
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Cooperstown, New York!!!
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Old 08-28-2008, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 102,722,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MILWCITY View Post
Now when comparing best baseball towns lets use Attendance, history, Fan knowledge, and overall support when a team is doing bad, does your city still come out even when the team is bad?

Right away When ever I see the Brew Crew play LA or Tampa Bay there's never any fans coming despite a great team, now take the brewers for instance with only 2 million people are avg more people than boston while having a smaller stadium at 41,900. Milwaukee is avg 38,000 a game and will pass 3million. I say Milwaukee great baseball town including the tailgating at Miller Park and just the buzz the whole city has. How come Arizona fans never seem to be wearing and Dbacks gear I also see this in a lot of very successful cities as well.
Sorry, can't give it to the Brew Crew. It's a fair-weather-fan city. I've been to several Cubs games up there where if Cubs fans weren't there, nobody would be there. The only reason they have good attendance the last couple of years is because the team have been division contenders the last couple years. Otherwise, they're lucky to get more than 20,000 people there. Compare that to a Cubs game I went to one September after they had already lost almost 90 games and there were still 35,000 people there.

Stadiums that are always 3/4ths full regardless of how the team is doing are Shea Stadium, Wrigley, Fenway, and Dodger Stadium. I suspect Yankee Stadium would be that way too, but it's hard to tell when they never have a losing season.
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Old 08-28-2008, 05:03 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 102,722,835 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northbound74 View Post
Not sure how much I agree with St. Louis or L.A.
LA has the shear population numbers to give off the appearance of interest.. as does NY.
But population doesn't always translate into attendance. Ask the clippers. Or ask the L.A. Rams and the L.A. Raiders. Oh wait -- they both left town. Or for that matter, ask the White Sox why they can't even outsell the Cubs in a year when the Sox win the World Series and the Cubs don't even put together a .500 season. L.A. may be a big city, but it's also a baseball city. Attendance at both franchises will attest to that.

Last edited by Drover; 08-28-2008 at 05:13 AM..
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Old 08-28-2008, 05:06 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 102,722,835 times
Reputation: 29967
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHS89 View Post
Tampa Bay has proven without a doubt that they are among the worst baseball towns. When the best team in the AL East hosts the best team in the AL West with the best record in baseball claim on the line, a MEDIOCRE baseball town is going to fill about 70% of the seats. The good people of Tampa bay couldn't be bothered to fill their stadium even half way. And they want a new place??

The fans in the Carolinas will show the Rays organization what fan support really means soon enough, I expect.
A baseball franchise in the Carolinas would have the exact same problem the Rays, and for that matter the Marlins and DBacks have: while it may look on paper like there's enough population to support a franchise, in practice a huge chunk of that population are transplants who are already loyal to their hometown team.
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Old 08-28-2008, 07:27 AM
 
1,251 posts, read 3,298,049 times
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The team would still draw better, and as was mentioned, traditions take time. Whether the fans come to see the home team, the visiting team, or a major league game in general, I'd bet the stadium fills even to 70% capacity routinely. That can't be said in Tampa.
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