Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Baseball
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-16-2011, 01:49 AM
 
Location: Hometown of Jason Witten
5,985 posts, read 4,378,120 times
Reputation: 1922

Advertisements

In the decade of the 1960's the Giants won 902 games but finished first only once.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-18-2011, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,050 posts, read 34,597,244 times
Reputation: 10616
Did you know...

That if not for Coors Beer, the National League was leaning in the direction of Buffalo as its next expansion city? The local minor league team was out-drawing half of the franchises in the majors at the time. But when Coors stepped up to promote Denver's bid, the league suddenly decided that Buffalo wasn't a "good weather" city, and handed the franchise to Denver. (Never mind what playing baseball at that elevation would do to statistics).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2011, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,115,388 times
Reputation: 21239
Default Take A Midget To Lunch

Today is the 60th anniversary of the pro debut of a man the opposition was never able to retire.

He was forced out of the majors with a lifetime OBA of 1.0000.

His jersey, bearing the fraction "1/8" is exhibited in the Hall of Fame.

In this year's draft, the San Diego Padres selected his grand nephew Kyle, who stands at 6' 4 ".

In his first hand account of the story, Bill Veeck wrote that after the umpires had huddled and determined that Gaedel had a legal contract to play and called for the game to resume, that St. Louis catcher Bob Swift and pitcher Bob Cain then did the one thing that had Veeck been in a position to do so, he would have paid them to do it. They met on the mound to discuss how to pitch to Gaedel. According to Cain, his catcher offered a rather obvious piece of advice...."Keep it low."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2011, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
Reputation: 36644
Every pitcher in MLB, then and now, could have easily thrown three pitches into Gaedel's strike zone. Any pitcher on my high school team could have (I was still in 6th grade, but . . .). If the Tigers hadn't been in fifth place, 18 games out of first, they would have.

The assertion that Cain, a major league pitcher going for his tenth win of the sason, "couldn't" hit a 100-square-inch strike zone, not even once in four tries, throwing BP fastballs without a credible batter, is one of the most absurd fables in baseball history. The enforced strike zone then was from the knees to the top of the letters.

Last edited by jtur88; 08-19-2011 at 10:05 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2011, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,115,388 times
Reputation: 21239
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
The assertion that Cain, a major league pitcher going for his tenth win of the sason, "couldn't" hit a 100-square-inch strike zone, not even once in four tries, throwing BP fastballs without a credible batter, is one of the most absurd fables in baseball history. .
But he didn't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2011, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
But he didn't.
But the reason he didn't is not on the following list:

1. He couldn't.

So, what was his reason?

Veeck could have sent up the 5'10" pinch hitter batting .270. who ran for Gaedel, too, but he didn't. Why?

Last edited by jtur88; 08-19-2011 at 12:43 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2011, 12:37 PM
 
8,276 posts, read 11,913,577 times
Reputation: 10080
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
But the reason he didn't is not on the following list:

1. He couldn't.

So, what was his reason?

Veeck could have sent up a 6-foot tall pinch hitter batting .258, too, but he didn't. Why?
Because Veeck bought him off, so as to not ruin the stunt..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2011, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
Because Veeck bought him off, so as to not ruin the stunt..
In other words, Cain's inability or difficulty to hit the small strike zone is a myth.

By the way, another myth is that the pitcher in question is often referred to as "Sugar" Cain. Sugar Cain was a different pitcher, of about equal calibre, who pitched in the 1930's, whose real first name was Mervyn. Bob Cain was never called "Sugar" during his career, and in later years, versions of the Gaedel story began calling him Sugar Cain, apparently by anecdotarians who confused the two pitchers.

Last edited by jtur88; 08-19-2011 at 12:56 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2011, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,115,388 times
Reputation: 21239
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
But the reason he didn't is not on the following list:

1. He couldn't.

So, what was his reason?

Veeck could have sent up the 5'10" pinch hitter batting .270. who ran for Gaedel, too, but he didn't. Why?
Actually you have no means for knowing that, do you? Did you see the Casilla at bat a few days ago? Where the relief pitcher who had never been to the plate before in MLB, stood at the far backcorner of the batters box and quite clearly was not going to make an attempt to swing?

The result?

A four pitch walk.

Was it deliberate like you are claiming for Cain?

All that was different for that pitcher was that his normal perceptions had been altered, the batter was no longer framing the strikezone in a manner to which the pitcher was accustomed to seeing. That was all it took to throw him off.

And that was a nornal sized player. Gaedel was child sized. You don't think that altered Bob Cain's perspective? Don't you think that the strange circumstances of having the surprise of a midget coming to the plate might have put him off his normal mentality?

Your thesis rests on the assumption that Cain could have zipped four balls into Gaedel's tiny strikezone, but deliberately did not do so. I have never seen any statement from Cain suggesting that he wasn't trying to throw a strike. Have you? Do you have some evidence to back your assertions?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2011, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Actually you have no means for knowing that, do you? Did you see the Casilla at bat a few days ago? Where the relief pitcher who had never been to the plate before in MLB, stood at the far backcorner of the batters box and quite clearly was not going to make an attempt to swing?

The result?

A four pitch walk.

Was it deliberate like you are claiming for Cain?

All that was different for that pitcher was that his normal perceptions had been altered, the batter was no longer framing the strikezone in a manner to which the pitcher was accustomed to seeing. That was all it took to throw him off.

And that was a nornal sized player. Gaedel was child sized. You don't think that altered Bob Cain's perspective? Don't you think that the strange circumstances of having the surprise of a midget coming to the plate might have put him off his normal mentality?

Your thesis rests on the assumption that Cain could have zipped four balls into Gaedel's tiny strikezone, but deliberately did not do so. I have never seen any statement from Cain suggesting that he wasn't trying to throw a strike. Have you? Do you have some evidence to back your assertions?
Your thesis rests on the assumption that Cain tried to throw a strike and couldn't, and that Veeck was certain enough that Cain couldn't, that he created an elaborate hoax that depended on Cain's mental block, and did not require Cain's as an accomplice. Your thesis is that Cain was really trying to strike him out, as if he were Babe Ruth and the bases were loaded with none out in the bottom of the tenth, and he just couldn't hit the mitt.

Cain was a major league pitcher with nine wins on the season. My thesis rests on a MLB pitcher being able to hit the catcher's mitt with BP fastballs at least one out of four.

You have produced a single anecdotal example of another pitcher who failed to throw a strike. You know better than to use anecdotal evidence to prove a broad principle.

Last edited by jtur88; 08-19-2011 at 02:30 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Baseball

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:59 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top