The best ever (pitchers, stance, ball, pitcher)

[Lancet71]

Here's a question to all:

Who in your opinion is the best position player of all times, and the best pitcher?Try to take into consideration (for hitters) offense and defense.

As a hitter my choice is Willie Mays.

Pitcher-Dennis Eckersley-most people will especially hate this choice but over the long haul he was a good starter and a DOMINANT CLOSER who barely ever walked a guy.I realize people are going to shoot this down or ask why I didn't pick Mariano considering i'm a Yankee fan but the fact he had a year where he had an ERA under 1.00(I think it was .061) and had only 4 walks given up that year,he's my choice!

[CHIP72]

Position player: Babe Ruth

Pitcher: Walter Johnson or Robert "Lefty" Grove

[Lancet71]

Originally Posted by CHIP72

Position player: Babe Ruth

Pitcher: Walter Johnson or Robert "Lefty" Grove

Can't argue with you.Very good choices.If I asked for one player it probably would have been Babe Ruth considering the hitting and pitching.

[Fred314X]

Position player: Willie Mays--I mean, the young outfielder Willie Mays.

Pitcher: there has never been, nor will there ever be another, like Cy Young himself. 511 wins (fourteen consecutive seasons with 20 or more wins--over 30 in five of them!) It doesn't matter that he played his last game in 1911, nearly a hundred years ago. Walter Johnson, who's next on the win list with 416, is probably the only pitcher who even comes within hailing distance.

[ogre]

As you said, Lancet, if it's the one greatest all-around player, it's Ruth, one of the greatest hitters ever, and not only a pitcher in his early years, but a star pitcher.

If we break it down into separate categories of position player and pitcher, I'm going with Mays as the greatest position player. Fourth all time in home runs, slightly better average than Bonds, without juicing himself, and with half his career played in an era when hitting reached a low point, speedy on the basepaths, and a great, great fielder. It's a bonus that Mays is also a really nice guy from everything I've heard, but jeven udging strictly by accomplishments on the field, I'll say Willie's the greatest all-around position player ever.

Judging pitchers gets very tricky, because their roles have changed substantially over time. You almost need to have separate categories, not only for starters and relievers, but for each of those in different eras. Given the request to name one pitcher as the greates ever, I'll go against the tendency to view players from the storied past as the real giants, and pick Greg Maddux. His 355 wins beat Clemens's total by one, among the greats who have recently retired or soon will, in one less season than Clemens played. 355 wins in this era of pitching specialization, when pitchers get way fewer innings than the top starters used to get even as recently as the '70's, is beyond extraordinary. Look at Maddux's four straight Cy Young awards, and the fact that he came about as close as any pitcher ever will to being perfect for anything approaching a full season, when he went, gulp, 19-2, in the '95 season, which was shortened by something like fourteen games due to the strike.

Something else extraordinary about Maddux is the way he was a model of consistency. For the most part, even the greatest pitchers have their off years, when they have arm trouble all season, or fall slightly out of form and somehow just don't hit the spots quite right. Maddux, though, stumbled through his first couple of seasons, as most pitchers do, then had a couple of winning seasons, followed by a .500 season, then reeled off fourteen straight winning seasons. Many of those were big-winning seasons, at that, with win totals like 17, 18, 19, 20. It really is amazing for a pitcher to go that long without even the occasional off year. The only recent pitcher I can think of who compares for this kind of long-running consistent success is Mike Mussina, but Maddux was consistent at a higher level. And that's not meant as a knock against Mussina, a player I think should enter the Hall of Fame. For sheer brilliance during his prime, and consistent success at the highest level over a lot of years, I don't think anyone comes out ahead of Maddux.

[marmac]

Left hand pitcher----------Sandy Koufax
Right Hand pitcher--------Bob Gibson

position player-----------Mickey Mantle

[nicname]

It is too hard to pick best ever.

Just looking at position players. My first thought is Willie Mays.

Best all around player the game ever saw.

Junior Griffey was on pace to be one of if not the greatest ever, until injuries started to slow him down. Griffey is the best player in the last 25 years IMHO.

[Lancet71]

Originally Posted by ogre

As you said, Lancet, if it's the one greatest all-around player, it's Ruth, one of the greatest hitters ever, and not only a pitcher in his early years, but a star pitcher.

If we break it down into separate categories of position player and pitcher, I'm going with Mays as the greatest position player. Fourth all time in home runs, slightly better average than Bonds, without juicing himself, and with half his career played in an era when hitting reached a low point, speedy on the basepaths, and a great, great fielder. It's a bonus that Mays is also a really nice guy from everything I've heard, but jeven udging strictly by accomplishments on the field, I'll say Willie's the greatest all-around position player ever.

Judging pitchers gets very tricky, because their roles have changed substantially over time. You almost need to have separate categories, not only for starters and relievers, but for each of those in different eras. Given the request to name one pitcher as the greates ever, I'll go against the tendency to view players from the storied past as the real giants, and pick Greg Maddux. His 355 wins beat Clemens's total by one, among the greats who have recently retired or soon will, in one less season than Clemens played. 355 wins in this era of pitching specialization, when pitchers get way fewer innings than the top starters used to get even as recently as the '70's, is beyond extraordinary. Look at Maddux's four straight Cy Young awards, and the fact that he came about as close as any pitcher ever will to being perfect for anything approaching a full season, when he went, gulp, 19-2, in the '95 season, which was shortened by something like fourteen games due to the strike.

Something else extraordinary about Maddux is the way he was a model of consistency. For the most part, even the greatest pitchers have their off years, when they have arm trouble all season, or fall slightly out of form and somehow just don't hit the spots quite right. Maddux, though, stumbled through his first couple of seasons, as most pitchers do, then had a couple of winning seasons, followed by a .500 season, then reeled off fourteen straight winning seasons. Many of those were big-winning seasons, at that, with win totals like 17, 18, 19, 20. It really is amazing for a pitcher to go that long without even the occasional off year. The only recent pitcher I can think of who compares for this kind of long-running consistent success is Mike Mussina, but Maddux was consistent at a higher level. And that's not meant as a knock against Mussina, a player I think should enter the Hall of Fame. For sheer brilliance during his prime, and consistent success at the highest level over a lot of years, I don't think anyone comes out ahead of Maddux.

I love Maddux,and you can't forget that he pitched for the Cubs in the beginning when they weren't dominant but he was coming through. Probably IMO the best control pitcher ever. If he played for a winning team in his early years he easily could have had 400 wins.(great choice)

[Lancet71]

Originally Posted by nicname

It is too hard to pick best ever.

Just looking at position players. My first thought is Willie Mays.

Best all around player the game ever saw.

Junior Griffey was on pace to be one of if not the greatest ever, until injuries started to slow him down. Griffey is the best player in the last 25 years IMHO.

Unfortunately I classify Griffey Jr. with Bonds.I played ball in HS and college and knew alot of guys juicing and KGJ has shown the signs over the years.I even told my buddies that eventually the injuries would catch up to him because of it and the last few years are just that.I do give him the edge over Bonds though based on defense, otherwise I thought they were comparable players.

[Lancet71]

Originally Posted by marmac

Left hand pitcher----------Sandy Koufax
Right Hand pitcher--------Bob Gibson

position player-----------Mickey Mantle

I'm a die-hard Yankee fan and love the Mick, but sorry he takes a back seat to Mays.I might have picked Joe D. before Mick.