What was Charlie Manuel thinking? (game, Yankees, Phillies, team)

[Upton]

Some of you criticizing Manuel's starting pitching choice, would have had a whole different take had the Phillies won last night. Then you'd be saying what a great move it was...the series is tied and Lee is going in a pivotal 5th game.

Fact: Lee had never before pitched on 3 days rest.

I mean hindsight is 20/20 and all that but, IMO, Manuel made the proper choice. You need more than one reliable starter to win a WS anyway..something the Phillies apparently don't have.

[Mike from back east]

I was surprised to not see Lee in game four. I expected to see him in game 1, game 4 and game 7. I hope to see Lee win tonight, but I think the outcome is in the bag for NY. It will be a shock to all of baseball if Philadelphia sweeps the next 3 games.

[Lancet71]

Originally Posted by Upton

Some of you criticizing Manuel's starting pitching choice, would have had a whole different take had the Phillies won last night. Then you'd be saying what a great move it was...the series is tied and Lee is going in a pivotal 5th game.

Fact: Lee had never before pitched on 3 days rest.

I mean hindsight is 20/20 and all that but, IMO, Manuel made the proper choice. You need more than one reliable starter to win a WS anyway..something the Phillies apparently don't have.

Your right you do need more then one reliable starter and two is sufficient.Just ask Arizona when they used Schilling and R.Johnson and beat my Yankees.Even before the first pitch everyone knew it was the wrong move.Even if it was too much for him pitching games 1,4,and 7;he'd have the whole offseason to rest up.Face it,it was a STUPID move not using him.Notice we didn't start Joba or Gaudin.We went to a 3 man because it gave us the best chance for success and guess what it's working.Baseball is supposed to be a game of chess.Pitching changes,pinch hitters,etc...well I guess this would be Checkmate then! Thanks for the blunder Manuel.My 8 year old son would have started Lee in Game 4 but I guess he must be more intelligent then Charlie Boy!

[CHIP72]

I personally didn't have a problem with Gomer's (i.e. Charlie Manuel's) decision to pitch Joe Blanton in Game 4. I can honestly say I thought before the game that Blanton would pitch well but would only last about 6 innings and the iffy Phillies' bullpen might blow the game. Blanton's line wasn't as good as I thought it would be, but he was also a little unlucky in the 5th inning when the Yankees' hits, which were not hit hard, found the right spots and resulted in 2 runs.

The bigger issue I have with Gomer's pitching decisions is putting Brad Lidge in the game in the 9th inning in Game 4. Putting your best reliever into the game in that spot is a smart move, but unfortunately Lidge hasn't been the Phillies' best reliever this year - more like the worst. Of course, Lidge nearly got through the inning 1-2-3, but then he ran into trouble and as it often seems to happen with Lidge, the guy goes to pieces when things turn. Johnny Damon's baserunning play was the single-biggest key (and it goes without saying that Damon deserves a lot of credit for a heads up play).

[dspguy]

I was also surprised to not see Lee in Game 4. He has not been pitching on short rest thus far. Being down 2 games to 1 is the best time.

However, people would be singing a similar (yet different) tune if they had still lost: "Oh, the Phillies just wasted their best weapon on short rest!"

As for the shift, that is pretty common against Teixeira, especially with runners on. The fault lies with the pitcher. Watch nearly any game where Boston's Ortiz is batting... teams always do a shift and the pitcher breaks for 3rd the moment he sees the catcher make the throw to second.

Bottom line though: the Phillies now need their "sure thing" to come through tonight to keep the series alive. But! If they do survive tonight, they have the benefit of going up against pettitte (not known for pitching well on short rest) and sabathia in Games 6 and 7... both on short rest.

It really isn't as bleak as it might look. But, Lee has to shut them down completely and rattle their confidence.

[Orangeish]

So I agree with the fact that people can second guess either way, that if he would have pitched Lee and they lost they could say, "he wasted his best weapon on short rest." Just because you can Monday morning quarterback a decision though does not mean there is not a right, or correct play. I personally think they should have thrown him yesterday and then again in game 7, even with his lack of short rest experience at the MLB level. To me, if you want to give your team the best chance to win, especially being down 2-1 and the way he dominated game 1, I throw him out there in game 4 100% of the time.

[twista6002]

Originally Posted by Lancet71

It doesn't matter what the outcome was.It matters what happened in game 1 and which pitcher gave you a better chance in the series to tie it up.

Whatever. The same bleeders and seeing eye-singles would've been given up by Lee as well, and we'd be down 3-1 without the luxury of being able to throw use best pitcher. Sounds like a move Gene Mauch would make.

[Ridgerunner]

I think Charlie was being realistic. It's highly unlikely that Lee will be as dominant as in Game 1 even with 4 days rest. And he'd rather be down 3-1 and have Lee ready than be down 3-1 and have to go with someone else.

[Mike from back east]

Glad to see Lee win last night. Phillies still have a huge uphill fight.

Yankees are pitching Pettitte in game 6, on short rest, as they did with Burnett last night and came up losers. Hmmmm......

I'm glad to see the series go to game 6 as I look forward to seeing if Chase Uttley can homer again and set a new record.

[jp03]

Originally Posted by Lancet71

Your right you do need more then one reliable starter and two is sufficient.Just ask Arizona when they used Schilling and R.Johnson and beat my Yankees.Even before the first pitch everyone knew it was the wrong move.Even if it was too much for him pitching games 1,4,and 7;he'd have the whole offseason to rest up.Face it,it was a STUPID move not using him.Notice we didn't start Joba or Gaudin.We went to a 3 man because it gave us the best chance for success and guess what it's working.Baseball is supposed to be a game of chess.Pitching changes,pinch hitters,etc...well I guess this would be Checkmate then! Thanks for the blunder Manuel.My 8 year old son would have started Lee in Game 4 but I guess he must be more intelligent then Charlie Boy!

Why do you always have to say "my Yankees" ?