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In game one, the Phillies won 6-1, Lidge was a non factor. In game 2 NY won 3-1, with the last Yankee run scored coming in the 7th, so Lidge was again not a factor. Game 3 the Yankees won 8-5, getting ahead to stay in the 5th inning, so I do not see where the closer would have made a difference for the Phillies.
Game 4...now we're talking. Yanks won 7-4, scoring three runs in the 9th off Lidge.
Game 5 the Phillies won 8-6 with no appearance by Lidge.
Game 6 was a 7-3 NY win with the final Yankee runs being scored in the 5th inning, so, no Lidge needed.
So....the Phillie closer was only a factor in one of six games. If Lidge had pitched well in his one critical appearance, the Phillies might have forced extra innings and might have gone on to win that game and force a game 7, which they might have won.
I'm going to argue that Lidge in '08 form would not have made much of a difference.
If Lidge was effective and they won Game 4,the series would have been tied at 2 which is much different than being down 3-1.
If Lidge was effective and they won Game 4,the series would have been tied at 2 which is much different than being down 3-1.
Well, yes, but the same can be said of all Philadelphia failures over the course of the four games which they lost. The six game series featured 54 innings of baseball. You are hanging the entire won/loss dynamic on one of those innings. Lidge only pitched that one inning, in the other five games, no closer opportunities materialized.
Other just as valid statements about the Series would include:
A) If Philadelphia had hit better they would have scored more runs and possibly won more games. Instead they hit .227 as a team.
B) If the Philadelphia staff had all pitched as well as Lee, they probably would have won the series.
C) If Matsui hadn't had such a great series, the Phillies might have won.
D) If the Phillies had scored ten runs in game four rather than four, there would have been no need for Lidge to have entered the game at all.
Your theory is that you can get to the WS without a decent closer, but you cannot win it without one. I do not buy that. I do not see that the nature of the game is altered in a WS so that suddenly the 9th inning becomes more critical than it does in any regular season game.
Mirajes would be a last resort as a closer given his propensity to walks, wildness and just freaking out . Look to Matt Guerrier as the most likely given the shot at closer. Gardy certainly showed more faith in Guerrier coming down the stretch in 2009, frequently putting him in with the game on the line in extra innings.
Mijares and Guerrier's 2009 numbers:
IP -- SO -- BB -- WHIP
61.2 -- 55 -- 23 -- 1.18 Mijares
76.1 -- 47 -- 16 -- 0.97 Guerrier
Gardy is likely still steaming at Mijares' bone-head move for throwing at Adam Everett in a crucial late season game and isn't about to trust him with the closer's role.
I considered Guerrier in my post, but I believe he is far too valuable a set up man. Guerrier is the guy you ask to get you 2 to 3 innings, not just one, and he does a great job. He's a very good "pitcher" getting by without having great stuff. Mijares has the speed along with some nasty breaking stuff to make a great closer. He's going to get his chances. I agree that his control could be the big issue.
A Rauch-Mijares platooning by Gardy wouldn't be out of the question.
I considered Guerrier in my post, but I believe he is far too valuable a set up man. Guerrier is the guy you ask to get you 2 to 3 innings, not just one, and he does a great job. He's a very good "pitcher" getting by without having great stuff. Mijares has the speed along with some nasty breaking stuff to make a great closer. He's going to get his chances. I agree that his control could be the big issue.
A Rauch-Mijares platooning by Gardy wouldn't be out of the question.
Why can't the closer go two innings?
Us 'nerds' like the idea of having our best relief pitcher pitch against the other team's best hitters. Even if those guys are up in the 8th inning instead of the ninth
I can see it now: bullpen by committee. But Nathan's absence only means that the other teams in the Central must be licking their chops right about now. We'll soon learn how vulnerable the Twins will be.
Us 'nerds' like the idea of having our best relief pitcher pitch against the other team's best hitters. Even if those guys are up in the 8th inning instead of the ninth
Seems like you would prefer your closer to be a starter.
Most teams --best hitters-- also bat in the 1st or 2nd inning also.
Seems like you would prefer your closer to be a starter.
Most teams --best hitters-- also bat in the 1st or 2nd inning also.
Of course having your starter go all Roy Halladay and finishing it off himself would be the best outcome.
But...this thread is about relief pitchers. And since we're discussing closers those 2nd inning at bats are history and not real relevant to the discussion.
If one wants to see their closers come in the 8th inning, why is the team paying salaries for middle relievers?
Because some situations don't warrant brining in your best relievers
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Also, if the game goes extra innings, I don't want to see my closer pulled cuz he entered in the 8th.
I don't want to see an inferior pitcher give up the lead while my closer sits on the bench.
The idea is that you should use your best pitcher in the most high leverage position.
You have Joe Closer who strikes out 12 per 9, walks 2 per 9 and gives up .5 HR per 9 and Bob SetUpGuy who strikes out 5 per 9, walks 3 per 9 and gives up 2 HR per 9 in your bullpen.
It's the 8th inning and you're up by 1.
The other team has these guys coming up:
Mike Doesn'tGetOut .350 BA .400 OBP and .600 SLG
Jon TheHammer .300BA .350 OBP and .700 SLG
Tom IsntBad .280 BA .340 OBP and .550 SLG
Dick Average .270 BA .330 OBP and .400 SLG
Harry PrettyBad .250 BA .310 OBP and .380 SLG
Larry Sucks .220 BA .280 OBP and .300 SLG
But if your theory is correct, why aren't stupid ( sarc) managers now doing it ?
But who is gonna pitch the 9th?
The reasons the good closers have such impressive numbers is cuz they only pitch 1 inning.
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