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Old 04-10-2010, 09:50 AM
 
Location: East Bay
332 posts, read 689,260 times
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Umpire Joe West blasts Boston Red Sox, New York Yankees for slow play - ESPN

I agree with the ump. It's very rare that I watch an entire baseball game these days; they're just too long and ponderous. Of course, to some extent, baseball has to be a deliberate game, but I can't stand watching a guy step out of the box and adjust his gloves for the thousandth time. I think umps should be strict about giving limited timeouts and not let the batter step out after every single pitch. Obviously another problem is the frequent and lengthy commercial breaks, but unfortunately those ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

Do you guys agree with the ump or do you not mind the pace?
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Old 04-10-2010, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Asheville
7,529 posts, read 6,146,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user376 View Post
Umpire Joe West blasts Boston Red Sox, New York Yankees for slow play - ESPN

I agree with the ump. It's very rare that I watch an entire baseball game these days; they're just too long and ponderous. Of course, to some extent, baseball has to be a deliberate game, but I can't stand watching a guy step out of the box and adjust his gloves for the thousandth time. I think umps should be strict about giving limited timeouts and not let the batter step out after every single pitch. Obviously another problem is the frequent and lengthy commercial breaks, but unfortunately those ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

Do you guys agree with the ump or do you not mind the pace?
the Yanks and Sox are two teams that work pitchers, unless the starter has impeccable control, they will take a lot of piches and foul a lot of pitches off and get the opposing starter to 100 pitches and then bring on the middle relief typically a teams weakest set of pitchers.

It's a philosophy that has been proven to work but it does lead to long games especially when they play each other.

I personally don't mind it, but I could watch a triple header, if life didn't get in the way.
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Old 04-10-2010, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Silver Spring, MD/Washington DC
3,451 posts, read 8,150,992 times
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I totally agree with Joe West. Guys like Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, and Mickey Mantle drew a ton of walks back in the day and worked pitchers too, but the games they played in didn't drag on. The slower games aren't just a product of television either.

Now the real question is whether Bud Selig agrees with Joe West because Selig actually has the power to empower the umpires to help speed up the game (i.e. not allow guys to call time out, restrict visits by the catcher to the pitcher's mound, restrict throws to 1st base by the pitcher, etc.). I think some rule changes could be made to speed up the game while at the same time enhancing it. Of course, Bud Selig always seems to change the WRONG things with baseball, so I don't expect Selig to support Joe West on this issue.
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Old 04-11-2010, 04:29 PM
 
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Yankees-Red Sox games have always been a four-hour affair, give or take a few minutes in either direction. If the umpires didn't have a problem with it back when Nomar was involved, as he went through a series of rituals after every pitch, they shouldn't have a problem with it now. These umpires have too much to say as it is, and their behavior at times borders on abusive. If they have someplace they would rather be, let them get other jobs. Try going to your job Monday, and complain that you're not happy with the pace of the business you work for; maybe even suggest to the boss that you would like to see the day end a half-hour earlier than it does now. See what they have to say about that.
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Old 04-11-2010, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Why doesn't MLB start by getting rid of the superfluous tack ons which plague the game? While I would argue that I think it is entirely possible to stage a professional baseball game without first having a mandatory mass display of collective patriotism (The Anthem), I will settle for dumping the 7th inning repetition of that inspirational moment which comes in the form of "God Bless America", and which if being sung by that fat Irish tenor with his glacial extended version, slaps an extra four or five minutes to the game time.

Why are we doing this anyway? Sure it was a sentimental thing to do in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, but isn't the grieving process over nine years later? Do we not already cover the demands of nationalism with the presentation of the Anthem? May we not go more than seven innings without requiring a retest of our love for America and courage in her defense?

I would also point out that in the Sox-Yankee opener, not only did we get a prolonged "God Bless America" in the 7th inning, in the 8th they dragged a froggy, weak voiced Neil Diamond out onto the diamond to deliver a prolonged sing along version of "Sweet Caroline."
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Old 04-11-2010, 06:23 PM
 
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g
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Why doesn't MLB start by getting rid of the superfluous tack ons which plague the game? While I would argue that I think it is entirely possible to stage a professional baseball game without first having a mandatory mass display of collective patriotism (The Anthem), I will settle for dumping the 7th inning repetition of that inspirational moment which comes in the form of "God Bless America", and which if being sung by that fat Irish tenor with his glacial extended version, slaps an extra four or five minutes to the game time.

Why are we doing this anyway? Sure it was a sentimental thing to do in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, but isn't the grieving process over nine years later? Do we not already cover the demands of nationalism with the presentation of the Anthem? May we not go more than seven innings without requiring a retest of our love for America and courage in her defense?

I would also point out that in the Sox-Yankee opener, not only did we get a prolonged "God Bless America" in the 7th inning, in the 8th they dragged a froggy, weak voiced Neil Diamond out onto the diamond to deliver a prolonged sing along version of "Sweet Caroline."
Most of those things have been going on since well before September 11th. They just don't show them on TV unless it's a special game, like Opening Day. God Bless America is a recent addition, but if they never played it again, you would save yourself a few minutes from every game, not enough to make any kind of a difference. The rest of the stuff; the 8th inning sing-a-longs, the anthem (which in a lot of cases is sponsored), mascot races, etc... They're not going away.

And what's wrong with a little bit of patriotism anyway? When did it become so horrible for Americans to celebrate their pasttime? It IS still ours. We certainly have to watch countless rituals from foreign players that also slow the game down. The anthem belongs there. I have no problem with God Bless America being there either. Neil Diamond? Eh. I could take him or leave him, but if he didn't do the song live that night at Fenway, the song was going to be played anyway, just as it is during every other home game.
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Old 04-11-2010, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringTheContent View Post

And what's wrong with a little bit of patriotism anyway? When did it become so horrible for Americans to celebrate their pasttime? It IS still ours. We certainly have to watch countless rituals from foreign players that also slow the game down. The anthem belongs there. .

How do you read "Patriotism is horrible" into my post? I am questioning the particular need for displaying it not only before a baseball game, but now during it as well.


Do you advocate making the National Anthem mandatory before an opera? How about at the start of movies? Are you offended if the Anthem doesn't introduce a rock concert or jazz trio at a nightclub?

Sporting events are entertainment events, just like those I listed above. Does your patriotism require a rousing version of the Anthem for baseball games but not the others? If so, have you ever asked yourself why? Can you explain why you are upset with someone who would like to see "God Bless America" removed from baseball games, but are not upset that it does not get performed at NFL games?

There was a time before singing GB America was introduced and somehow or other national loyalties remained intact, and there was a time before singing The Star Spangled Banner at ballgames was introduced, and Americans were still patriotic. So please do not advance the nonsensical idea that singing these songs are needed for a strong, loyal country.

If we get rid of them, all we lose are two songs.

Patriotism is found in deeds, in how you respond to a national crisis, not in how hard you wave a flag or how loudly you sing a song.
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Old 04-11-2010, 06:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Do you advocate making the National Anthem mandatory before an opera? How about at the start of movies? Are you offended if the Anthem doesn't introduce a rock concert or jazz trio at a nightclub?
What are you trying to do here? The anthem has never been part of those events. It's been a part of baseball, and will continue to be a part of baseball.

Quote:
Sporting events are entertainment events, just like those I listed above. Does your patriotism require a rousing version of the Anthem for baseball games but not the others? If so, have you ever asked yourself why? Can you explain why you are upset with someone who would like to see "God Bless America" removed from baseball games, but are not upset that it does not get performed at NFL games?
Football, depending on the team, has its own ceremonies. But we're not talking about football here.

Quote:
There was a time before singing GB America was introduced and somehow or other national loyalties remained intact, and there was a time before singing The Star Spangled Banner at ballgames was introduced, and Americans were still patriotic. So please do not advance the nonsensical idea that singing these songs are needed for a strong, loyal country.

If we get rid of them, all we lose are two songs.
It's about tradition. And yes, it's also about patriotism. It's fun to be an American. To be able to go out and watch a game. To stand for the anthem, applaud the singer, and enjoy the free time with our families. I'm also not too naive to know that it's also about business. Like I said before, a lot of the time the anthem is sponsored. I could do without THAT aspect of it, but it's not going away.

We're not going to lose two songs because we're not going to get rid of them. You can always head for your seat after the anthem is over and skip the whole thing. As for God Bless America, it's played at every Yankee game. They used to stop people from leaving during that time, but they stopped doing that. Still, 99.9% of the fans stay for it. Some people just happen to like these things.
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Old 04-11-2010, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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bring the content:
Quote:
What are you trying to do here? The anthem has never been part of those events. It's been a part of baseball, and will continue to be a part of baseball.
But it does not have to be so, does it? The nation will suffer nothing for our removing it. Is it your conviction that we are permanently stuck with all traditions? That the reason we are obliged to do something is that others have done it in the past?

Quote:
It's about tradition. And yes, it's also about patriotism. It's fun to be an American. To be able to go out and watch a game. To stand for the anthem, applaud the singer, and enjoy the free time with our families.
Yes, but you have not explained what it is about a sporting event which demands that a display of patriotism be added, while we can conduct all sorts of other public entertainments without such a requirement. If your goal is the enjoyment you receive from the ceremony, then would you object if we kept the ceremony intact, but shifted it from ballgames to movies?

Quote:
We're not going to lose two songs because we're not going to get rid of them.
I fear that the above is far too typical of your reasoning in this thread....something is because...something is. That's not actually an argument, you know.

My whole point was to try and introduce you to the idea that something is, but doesn't have to be the way it is. Did you not get the point about familiarity? Had you been born into a world where the tradition was to sing the Anthem before movies, but not at ballgames, then you would be arguing, just as pointlessly as you are arguing now, that of course we should have the anthem before movies because we always have had it before movies...and of course we don't need it at ballgames because we have never had it at ballgames.
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Old 04-11-2010, 08:06 PM
 
2,500 posts, read 2,535,516 times
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Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Is it your conviction that we are permanently stuck with all traditions? That the reason we are obliged to do something is that others have done it in the past?
We're not talking about all traditions. Let's put it this way. Do you honestly believe that in your lifetime there will ever be MLB without the anthem? God Bless America will probably be phased out in time, but the anthem is going to be around long after every active player and their grandchildren are in the ground. Even if I didn't like it I would have to say that it's not going anywhere. But let's not make this too much about that in this thread.

Quote:
Yes, but you have not explained what it is about a sporting event which demands that a display of patriotism be added, while we can conduct all sorts of other public entertainments without such a requirement. If your goal is the enjoyment you receive from the ceremony, then would you object if we kept the ceremony intact, but shifted it from ballgames to movies?



I fear that the above is far too typical of your reasoning in this thread....something is because...something is. That's not actually an argument, you know.
It's not that "something is because something is." It's because most people like it and see it as a positive aspect of the game. You want me to explain something for which there is no explanation, other than the fact that it's a tradition that's been in place and that most people enjoy it.

Since it's not going away anyway, and it's really not the topic of the thread, I'm just going to leave it at that. But I do respect your points of view, and there are many who will agree with you.
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