The Cardinals don't impress me (game, MLB, Mets, fan)

[BringTheContent]

Originally Posted by ThatTNGuy

I'm not sure if TLR did something to harm you personally...

WHY? Because I said the Cardinals don't impress me, and I backed it up with my reasons for feeling that way?

I don't think the Cardinals are a good team. I think La Russa is a very overrated manager. I pointed out the things that are very good about the team, including two people who are the best in the world at what they do respectively (Pujols and Duncan). I told you what I don't like about them. They're over-managed, too many role players who do the same thing, sloppy play. I told you that your opinion is as good as anyone's even after you told me my opinion didn't carry much weight.

This isn't going anywhere. I don't like the Cardinals and you do. That's fine. Time to move on.

[BringTheContent]

Originally Posted by filihok

Cardinals ranked 12th out of 30 teams in total WAR last year with 38.1

They were behind the Yankees, Rays, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, Rockies, Braves, Phillies, Rangers, Blue Jays, and Tigers

I've got to agree with the assertion that they aren't a premier team. They've got some star power, but they've also got a lot of average to below average guys in the their lineup. They definitely benefit from playing in the NL Central with the Cubs (19th in total WAR), Brewers (22nd), Reds (24th), Pirates (26th) and Astros (27th).

As a Dodger fan (since that's so important to you apparently) I still picked the Cards to win the WS last year. They were virtual locks for their division and I thought the strong pitching of Carpenter and Wainwright in a short series would give them an advantage. I was wrong.

This is 100% correct.

[BringTheContent]

Originally Posted by sdodd

I am a huge Cards fan and agree they have not played great so far, but hey i will take not played great so far and be 8-4. Our offense has struggled that last couple games and yet we still win 2 of 3 from the METS so just imagine when we start clicking.

Good post! That's the kind of response I was looking for in all honesty. They haven't looked very good, but they're off to a good start where their record is concerned. I still don't think they're a very good team, but I will agree that if they start to click they will have a very good year. Like I said, they already have some very good people on board, including the best hitter maybe on the entire planet. I do think they are very limited, but they should win the division. From there anything can happen.

[ThatTNGuy]

Originally Posted by BringTheContent

This isn't going anywhere. I don't like the Cardinals and you do. That's fine. Time to move on.

Reds fan? I could see you being a Brewers fan too. I would've said Cubs originally, but that would be too easy.

[filihok]

Originally Posted by Inoxkeeper

Looks like the Completely Useless By September crowd is already staring another losing season in the face and are trying to avoid that painful reality by taking shots at the Kings of the NL.

Someone pass the popcorn, watching someone try to "dis" the Cards is good fiction. Better than some books I have read recently.

I haven't seen anyone take a shot against the Phillies

[filihok]

Originally Posted by ThatTNGuy

Nevertheless, you and Content will be two of a very small minority saying the Cardinals are "not a premier team."

1) I don't know if that is true or not
2) I don't care what the majority says.
3) The Cardinals are not a 'premier' team

By the end of the season, they will likely be one of the two or three best teams in the NL. Do with that what you will.

I'll start by questioning what you mean. Will they have one of the two or three best records in the NL? Yes, since everyone's mother knows that the NL Central sucks. I'd expect a decent team in a crappy division to win a lot of games and breeze into the playoffs.

That alone DOES NOT make them a premier team.

Show me some evidence that they are a premier team.

[ThatTNGuy]

Originally Posted by filihok

2) I don't care what the majority says.

I'm that way most of the time, but sometimes the majority is in agreement for a reason.

I'll start by questioning what you mean. Will they have one of the two or three best records in the NL? Yes, since everyone's mother knows that the NL Central sucks. I'd expect a decent team in a crappy division to win a lot of games and breeze into the playoffs.

I mean, the concept isn't too difficult. The Cardinals will likely be one of the best two or three teams in the National League this season. Don't overthink.

Show me some evidence that they are a premier team.

Define "premier team" for me first. That's probably a question I should've asked from the start. This may come as a surprise, but your standards aren't in published form for the rest of us to keep up with.

[filihok]

Originally Posted by ThatTNGuy

I'm that way most of the time, but sometimes the majority is in agreement for a reason.

I agree. Often times that reason is because they don't really think about or understand the subject and just go along with the herd

I mean, the concept isn't too difficult.

I agree

The Cardinals will likely be one of the best two or three teams in the National League this season.

Perhaps. As currently constructed the Phillies are clearly better. The Braves, Dodgers and Rockies are about equal to the Cardinals.

The Yankees, Red Sox and Rays are also clearly better than the Cardinals. At best the Cards are the 5th best team

Don't overthink.

Don't underthink.

Define "premier team" for me first. That's probably a question I should've asked from the start. This may come as a surprise, but your standards aren't in published form for the rest of us to keep up with.

Oh good...an discussion about semantics

You are the first one that brought up the word 'premier' in this thread, so perhaps you should publish your standards.

The Cardinals are going to be exactly what they were last a year. An above average team (12th out of 30 last year) that wins their weak division and gives themselves a chance in a wide-open playoffs while racking up a lot of wins despite not being among the most talented teams in the league.

[ThatTNGuy]

Originally Posted by filihok

I agree. Often times that reason is because they don't really think about or understand the subject and just go along with the herd.

Sure. I honestly don't think this is one of those times.

Perhaps. As currently constructed the Phillies are clearly better. The Braves, Dodgers and Rockies are about equal to the Cardinals.

The Yankees, Red Sox and Rays are also clearly better than the Cardinals. At best the Cards are the 5th best team.

I'd say the Phillies have a better offense (duh), but their rotation after Halladay is somewhat shaky. Losing Rollins is going to hurt a bit too, but more on the defensive side. I'll agree though - they're #1 until they get dethroned.

I like the Braves' pitching staff, and I actually chose them for the WC, but I'm not as well-versed about the Rockies and Dodgers. How are the Dodgers shaping up this year? It seems like the Rockies are the trendy pick for the West, and the Giants have gotten off to a good start as well.

The Cardinals are going to be exactly what they were last a year. An above average team (12th out of 30 last year) that wins their weak division and gives themselves a chance in a wide-open playoffs while racking up a lot of wins despite not being among the most talented teams in the league.

You concede that they are perhaps the 5th best team out of 30, and they're not among the most talented? That's odd to me. I realize they have players like David Freese and Skip Shumaker after Pujols, Holliday, Carpenter, Wainwright, Molina, Rasmus and Ludwick, but can't that be said of pretty much every team? Their good players are very good, and the fact that you think only four teams are "clearly better" seems to prove my point. I'm not saying they're world beaters, but the Cards will be a very good team this year. My biggest concern as of now is the bullpen, but it hasn't killed us yet.

[case44]

Like them or not, folks, the Cardinals are the division's best team, just as they were going into the season. Until the Astros make a comeback to become a contender once again, the Cards are simply the class of the division.