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Old 09-22-2010, 08:57 PM
JL JL started this thread
 
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Interesting take.

RealGM: Two Plus The Foul - 10 Reasons Max Contracts & Free Agency Arenít Going Anywhere (http://realgm.com/src_feature_pieces/965/20100908/10_reasons_max_contracts_&_free_agency_arent_going _anywhere/ - broken link)
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Extreme Southeast Philly, NJ
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I enjoy reading that stuff from people who understand how the numbers actually work and aren't emotionally wrapped up in the little stuff. The LeBron and Miami stuff crushed baseball for most of the summer. It was incredibly compelling and I was hoping Denver would have moved Melo to keep it going.

And the author's number 1 reason is what a lot of people don't seem to get. Miami, NY, LA, Boston... If those teams are dominant, while teams like Orlando, San Antonio, Dallas, OKC, Chicago, and Portland at least remain viable, the league will be great and incredibly entertaining. The only people who could be mad are fans of the other teams. If everyone went 41-41, it would be boring. Parity sucks.
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Old 09-23-2010, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
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Originally Posted by RyDizzle23 View Post

And the author's number 1 reason is what a lot of people don't seem to get. Miami, NY, LA, Boston... If those teams are dominant, while teams like Orlando, San Antonio, Dallas, OKC, Chicago, and Portland at least remain viable, the league will be great and incredibly entertaining. The only people who could be mad are fans of the other teams. If everyone went 41-41, it would be boring. Parity sucks.
Then why not condense the NBA to 12 or so franchises?? You're saying it's fine that the other 20 franchises suck as long as there are a handful of dominant one's? One of the reasons the NFL is the most popular pro sport by far in this country is b/c year-to-year, any team can rise up and compete for a Super Bowl championship (there have been 9 unique NFC representatives the past 9 seasons), yet they still have there perennial power-house type teams like Indy, New England & Pittsburgh.

I love the NBA, but it's hard to get real excited for the upcoming season as a Cavs fan when I know they have 0% chance of competing for an NBA title now that LeCon left...the only reason to watch them is to see if they will be good enough to vie for one of the final 2 or 3 playoff spots that gives them the right to lose in the 1st round. There is no realistic hope of them even being back into contention for at least 3-5 seasons, and that's if the ping pong balls bounce right, they get some excellent draft picks, and they are able to develop and retain a core nucleus of players. When you only have 4 or 5 fan bases that can realistically think they have a shot at the championship this year (cHeat, Lakers, Celtics, Magic & maybe Chicago or OK City), to me, that's not a good thing. I live kind of between Atlanta & Charlotte, so I get both of their games on regional networks, but I'm not going to watch them a whole lot knowing they don't stand a chance of winning a title, and I'm definitely not going to shell out $200 to get league pass to watch the Cavs go 41-41 this season! I'll watch the few times they are on National TV and when they play Charlotte or Atlanta and that will be about it.

If the NBA could some how conjure up a way to get non-guaranteed contracts like the NFL - granted, the NFL salary structure is far from perfect - think it would go a long way in giving all franchises a shot. Think about some of the awful contracts that are given, and the players fade off into mediocrity. Of course, some of it is just bad business decisions a la giving Joe Johnson 6 years, $120 million, but some of it is the player does dumb things a la Gilbert Arenas.

I hate to say it, but I am hoping for anyone but Miami to win it this season, and then that the owners lockout the players and end up cancelling 2011-12 just so that LeCon loses a year of his prime. Again, the Cavs have no shot at winning a championship this season or next, so what does it matter to me all that much if there is no season next year?
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Old 09-23-2010, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Extreme Southeast Philly, NJ
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So much emotion in your argument: you're a bitter Cavs fan, LeBron is LeCon(?), and the Miami Heat are the cHeat(?). First, LeBron left because he couldn't win in Cleveland, ever. That doesn't make him a con, that makes him smart since he'll only have (assuming good health) 8-10 more productive years of play on the court. If you only had 10-15 years to make the most money you could and you had the option to work for any company, you'd go to the one that gave the best chance to succeed 10 out of 10 times. And Pat Riley and the Heat did everything within the rules to get the players they got. It's everyone else's problem they weren't smart enough (or in a more desirable location) to make that happen for themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC View Post
Then why not condense the NBA to 12 or so franchises?? You're saying it's fine that the other 20 franchises suck as long as there are a handful of dominant one's? One of the reasons the NFL is the most popular pro sport by far in this country is b/c year-to-year, any team can rise up and compete for a Super Bowl championship (there have been 9 unique NFC representatives the past 9 seasons), yet they still have there perennial power-house type teams like Indy, New England & Pittsburgh.
Yes, I'd get rid of a few teams. There are perennial bottom feeders in every league, not just the NBA. In the NFL, every team doesn't have a realistic shot at winning. The NFL is marketed that way so you think that. Detroit? Oakland? Tampa? Cleveland? Buffalo? Kansas City? Jacksonville? Irrelevant for some time now. Anyone outside of those places really think they're legit contenders? If they think with their head and not their heart, no. I'd get rid of a couple of them and put someone in LA. You reference 9 reps from the NFC, but that's because the NFC the last decade was significantly inferior to the AFC. To illustrate that, you then reference 3 perennial powers, NE, Pit, Indy, all from the AFC and they appeared/won most of the Super Bowls in the decade. Yea, you get teams like Arizona and Seattle making a run once in a while, but that's the nature of the sport being one and done, if you get in the playoffs. (Side note, I'd bet if the NFC only played the NFC, and the AFC only played the AFC, the NFC teams would go 7-9, 8-8, 9-7, while the AFC teams we know are superior would find a way to go 11-5 or better.) In the NBA, the better team usually wins out in the playoffs because you have to do it 4 times. In the NBA, I'd get rid of Golden State and/or Sacramento, (2 of the following 3) Milwaukee, Minnesota, Indiana, definitely Toronto, probably Memphis, and maybe 1 of the following 3: New Orleans, Cleveland or DC. This would get rid of the players that don't really belong in the NBA and make the competition much more intense. Drop a few games off the regular season. Go back to 5-7-7-7 playoff format. Get rid of the divisions and just make it East and West. Every region would be represented well and the talent level would be very high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC View Post
There is no realistic hope of them even being back into contention for at least 3-5 seasons, and that's if the ping pong balls bounce right, they get some excellent draft picks, and they are able to develop and retain a core nucleus of players.
2 parts: First, the ping-pong balls bounced right for the Cavs 7 years ago, right? Second, when was Cleveland gonna draft some excellent players and develop and retain a core nucleus? The next 7 years? It was easy and obvious when you had LeBron to choose from in the pool. But after that, where were the good decisions? (no pun intended) Cleveland had the chance for 7 years and blew it. Is that LeBron's fault, or management's fault?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC View Post
I live kind of between Atlanta & Charlotte, so I get both of their games on regional networks, but I'm not going to watch them a whole lot knowing they don't stand a chance of winning a title, and I'm definitely not going to shell out $200 to get league pass to watch the Cavs go 41-41 this season! I'll watch the few times they are on National TV and when they play Charlotte or Atlanta and that will be about it.
Move, or pick a new team to follow. At least you can watch playoff teams. I'm stuck surrounded by awful teams (Philly, DC, Jersey, New York). I don't feel bad for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC View Post
If the NBA could some how conjure up a way to get non-guaranteed contracts like the NFL - granted, the NFL salary structure is far from perfect - think it would go a long way in giving all franchises a shot. Think about some of the awful contracts that are given, and the players fade off into mediocrity. Of course, some of it is just bad business decisions a la giving Joe Johnson 6 years, $120 million, but some of it is the player does dumb things a la Gilbert Arenas.
No sympathy for bad financial decisions. The teams that prosper are the teams that figure out how to get the most value out of their players for as cheap as possible. Go back to the "parity" in the NFL, but look at the teams you referenced from the AFC - 3 teams that consistently are at/near the top despite the salary structure because they don't give out ridiculous contracts and they draft well. Look at the bottom-feeders that are consistently at the bottom. If you make bad decisions, that's on you (Oakland, Buffalo). If you can figure it out, you'll succeed. And that goes for the NBA as well. Look at the Clippers in LA. Look at Philly. Look at the Knicks. Horrible management. Stop drafting bad players, stop overpaying guys that don't deserve it, and stop trading for big names past their prime, and you'll do better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC View Post
I hate to say it, but I am hoping for anyone but Miami to win it this season, and then that the owners lockout the players and end up cancelling 2011-12 just so that LeCon loses a year of his prime. Again, the Cavs have no shot at winning a championship this season or next, so what does it matter to me all that much if there is no season next year?
People rooting for a lockout are ridiculous. NOBODY wins if there is no NBA or NFL. NOBODY. I'm a fan of the game first and foremost, and I like to be entertained by great talent. If you don't like what you see today, don't watch. That simple. But you're rooting for the Heat to lose, so you have some interest. Whether you're rooting for or against (whoever), you're rooting. You're in the seats at the game or watching on tv or clicking the stories on the internet. That's all the commissioners care about.
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
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Originally Posted by RyDizzle23 View Post
So much emotion in your argument: you're a bitter Cavs fan, LeBron is LeCon(?), and the Miami Heat are the cHeat(?). First, LeBron left because he couldn't win in Cleveland, ever. That doesn't make him a con, that makes him smart since he'll only have (assuming good health) 8-10 more productive years of play on the court. If you only had 10-15 years to make the most money you could and you had the option to work for any company, you'd go to the one that gave the best chance to succeed 10 out of 10 times. And Pat Riley and the Heat did everything within the rules to get the players they got. It's everyone else's problem they weren't smart enough (or in a more desirable location) to make that happen for themselves.



Yes, I'd get rid of a few teams. There are perennial bottom feeders in every league, not just the NBA. In the NFL, every team doesn't have a realistic shot at winning. The NFL is marketed that way so you think that. Detroit? Oakland? Tampa? Cleveland? Buffalo? Kansas City? Jacksonville? Irrelevant for some time now. Anyone outside of those places really think they're legit contenders? If they think with their head and not their heart, no. I'd get rid of a couple of them and put someone in LA. You reference 9 reps from the NFC, but that's because the NFC the last decade was significantly inferior to the AFC. To illustrate that, you then reference 3 perennial powers, NE, Pit, Indy, all from the AFC and they appeared/won most of the Super Bowls in the decade. Yea, you get teams like Arizona and Seattle making a run once in a while, but that's the nature of the sport being one and done, if you get in the playoffs. (Side note, I'd bet if the NFC only played the NFC, and the AFC only played the AFC, the NFC teams would go 7-9, 8-8, 9-7, while the AFC teams we know are superior would find a way to go 11-5 or better.) In the NBA, the better team usually wins out in the playoffs because you have to do it 4 times. In the NBA, I'd get rid of Golden State and/or Sacramento, (2 of the following 3) Milwaukee, Minnesota, Indiana, definitely Toronto, probably Memphis, and maybe 1 of the following 3: New Orleans, Cleveland or DC. This would get rid of the players that don't really belong in the NBA and make the competition much more intense. Drop a few games off the regular season. Go back to 5-7-7-7 playoff format. Get rid of the divisions and just make it East and West. Every region would be represented well and the talent level would be very high.



2 parts: First, the ping-pong balls bounced right for the Cavs 7 years ago, right? Second, when was Cleveland gonna draft some excellent players and develop and retain a core nucleus? The next 7 years? It was easy and obvious when you had LeBron to choose from in the pool. But after that, where were the good decisions? (no pun intended) Cleveland had the chance for 7 years and blew it. Is that LeBron's fault, or management's fault?



Move, or pick a new team to follow. At least you can watch playoff teams. I'm stuck surrounded by awful teams (Philly, DC, Jersey, New York). I don't feel bad for you.



No sympathy for bad financial decisions. The teams that prosper are the teams that figure out how to get the most value out of their players for as cheap as possible. Go back to the "parity" in the NFL, but look at the teams you referenced from the AFC - 3 teams that consistently are at/near the top despite the salary structure because they don't give out ridiculous contracts and they draft well. Look at the bottom-feeders that are consistently at the bottom. If you make bad decisions, that's on you (Oakland, Buffalo). If you can figure it out, you'll succeed. And that goes for the NBA as well. Look at the Clippers in LA. Look at Philly. Look at the Knicks. Horrible management. Stop drafting bad players, stop overpaying guys that don't deserve it, and stop trading for big names past their prime, and you'll do better.



People rooting for a lockout are ridiculous. NOBODY wins if there is no NBA or NFL. NOBODY. I'm a fan of the game first and foremost, and I like to be entertained by great talent. If you don't like what you see today, don't watch. That simple. But you're rooting for the Heat to lose, so you have some interest. Whether you're rooting for or against (whoever), you're rooting. You're in the seats at the game or watching on tv or clicking the stories on the internet. That's all the commissioners care about.
You're right, I am bitter at Shames b/c he quit in the playoffs and left like a coward. How come all off-season we haven't heard a peep about his so-called 'elbow' injury?? And I'll give you that the Cavs didn't make all the right personnel moves the past 7 seasons, but you and I both know that every time they made a trade or signed a player, they consulted Shames and he more or less gave his 'blessing' to the move. Not saying it should be his responsibility to evaluate talent, but it's funny how during the past two regular seasons everyone was saying that the Cavs had more than enough talent to win a championship, yet all of a sudden when he decides to go to Miami, we get the argument, he never could have won a championship in Cleveland, so he made the right decision to leave. Really? I hope the Cavs go out and win 45-50 games this season just to stick it to all the people who are saying that crap now. Had he gave it his best effort to the very end and not quit in Game 5 of the Boston series, and came out ahead of time and said, you know, I've had a good run in Cleveland, but I just feel like it's time to move on shortly after the season was over; while not happy, I could've at least respected his decision unlike the punk way it all went down.

You keep telling yourself Pat Riley did everything 'within the rules'...I'm sure there was no conspiring at all behind the scenes the past few years w/the 3 stooges in Miami.

The ping-pong ball did bounce the right way in 2003 - but keep in mind that the Cavs had the worst record in the league the prior season, and had been awful to mediocre pretty much since the Price-Daugherty era that ended in 1993. Ten years is a long time to wait for a once in a generation talent.

I've never been a 'front-runner', so I'm not going to just pick a new team to follow, I'll still be a Cavs fan through good and bad, just saying it's not near as much fun to follow them as they return to the middle of the pack. Nor am I as willing to drop lots of money to follow them as I might have been inclined to before.

And you're right, I shouldn't root for a lock-out, but let's just say, I won't be devestated should it happen, will I miss being able to watch NBA games at times, sure, but as I said before, it's not like my team has a shot at the Title, so nothing in the grand scheme of things will really be lost.
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Old 09-23-2010, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Extreme Southeast Philly, NJ
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Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC View Post
How come all off-season we haven't heard a peep about his so-called 'elbow' injury??
When do you ever hear about injuries in the off-season?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC View Post
And I'll give you that the Cavs didn't make all the right personnel moves the past 7 seasons, but you and I both know that every time they made a trade or signed a player, they consulted Shames and he more or less gave his 'blessing' to the move. Not saying it should be his responsibility to evaluate talent, but it's funny how during the past two regular seasons everyone was saying that the Cavs had more than enough talent to win a championship, yet all of a sudden when he decides to go to Miami, we get the argument, he never could have won a championship in Cleveland, so he made the right decision to leave. Really?
So which is it? The Cavs made bad decisions? LeBron had too much input? The answer is the Cavs made bad decisions, and if they gave LeBron too much input, then bad on them for that too. And I was never one of those people drinking the Kool-Aid when they signed Mo Williams or Delonte West or Shaq or Antawn Jamison. I really can't name a legitimate acquisition, draft or otherwise since LeBron. So, yes, it was the right decision to leave. I would've left after the first contract, but I have a warm-weather preference...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC View Post
Had he gave it his best effort to the very end and not quit in Game 5 of the Boston series, and came out ahead of time and said, you know, I've had a good run in Cleveland, but I just feel like it's time to move on shortly after the season was over; while not happy, I could've at least respected his decision unlike the punk way it all went down.
He gave a huge effort that year in the Detroit series where he carried that sorry team on his back to win that game. He probably figured I've done this before and it isn't worth it. Who's to say they would have won that series? Or the next series? They weren't beating the Lakers either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC View Post
You keep telling yourself Pat Riley did everything 'within the rules'...I'm sure there was no conspiring at all behind the scenes the past few years w/the 3 stooges in Miami.
Conspiring between the players? It's not like they aren't friends and don't EVER talk about their professional careers. But I never heard of that being against the rules. If LeBron, Wade, and Bosh "conspired" to go to Cleveland, would you have had a problem with it? Of course not. But because you got burned, they must have cheated. When your team loses, the refs blew the calls. If you get the calls, you say nothing.

I'm sure it'll be fun having very little to enjoy this coming season after the first couple weeks. Meanwhile, I'll follow the interesting and entertaining teams.
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Old 09-23-2010, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Cook County
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He gave a huge effort that year in the Detroit series where he carried that sorry team on his back to win that game. He probably figured I've done this before and it isn't worth it.
Why wouldn't it be worth it? I would think a professional athlete would relish this type of situation. Imagine if every player that wasn't guranteed a finals spot with an elite team around him took the approach you described above, "I'm not favored to win it all, so why try."

Also, its arguable that regular season success is worth more than playoff success when it comes to the overall evaluation of how a team is run, and the Cavs were a great regular season team. The playoffs have a ton of variables and one tough match up can send a team home. It wasn't Lebron and 11 bums on that roster at all. Obviously to fans, its all about the "rang" but only one team can get that each year. I wouldn't say every team but one has a failure of a season, but thats what your basically implying here. "Winning isnt everything, its the only thing" is a fine mantra to motivate players, but not when it comes to running an organization. Everyone takes lumps, and that doesn't make any franchise a failure or one that is poorly run--not by that standard alone.

And for the record, I have never been an LBJ or a Cavs fan. I enjoyed watching Jordan rip people like Buckeyes heart out in the 90s

Last edited by Orangeish; 09-23-2010 at 02:31 PM..
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Old 09-23-2010, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
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Originally Posted by RyDizzle23 View Post
When do you ever hear about injuries in the off-season?



So which is it? The Cavs made bad decisions? LeBron had too much input? The answer is the Cavs made bad decisions, and if they gave LeBron too much input, then bad on them for that too. And I was never one of those people drinking the Kool-Aid when they signed Mo Williams or Delonte West or Shaq or Antawn Jamison. I really can't name a legitimate acquisition, draft or otherwise since LeBron. So, yes, it was the right decision to leave. I would've left after the first contract, but I have a warm-weather preference...



He gave a huge effort that year in the Detroit series where he carried that sorry team on his back to win that game. He probably figured I've done this before and it isn't worth it. Who's to say they would have won that series? Or the next series? They weren't beating the Lakers either.



Conspiring between the players? It's not like they aren't friends and don't EVER talk about their professional careers. But I never heard of that being against the rules. If LeBron, Wade, and Bosh "conspired" to go to Cleveland, would you have had a problem with it? Of course not. But because you got burned, they must have cheated. When your team loses, the refs blew the calls. If you get the calls, you say nothing.

I'm sure it'll be fun having very little to enjoy this coming season after the first couple weeks. Meanwhile, I'll follow the interesting and entertaining teams.
When you're the biggest free agent in the history of the NBA coming off of an alleged elbow injury and not have it mentioned at all? Something's amiss there, heck there was more talk about Delonte & Gloria than that, and no major media source even picked that story up.

To use the Detroit series as an example of LeCon giving his all, sure, that was in 2007 headed into his first free agency when he was restricted - he couldn't leave that first time, b/c the Cavs were absolutely going to match any offer he would've gotten elsewhere. Since that season when they went to the Finals which by the way was by far their 'weakest' team the past 4 seasons (started Eric Snow, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden & Z that year), lost in the 2nd round twice and in the EC Finals the other time. And seriously, to be like I've done this before, and we aren't going to probably win anyways, so I'll just lay down & quit and let us lose by 32 at home?? That after they went to Boston and pounded them by 29 in Game 3? That's real professional - especially when you are the self-proclaimed chosen one!

A lot of the moves the team made was b/c LeQuit wouldn't commit to the team or tell free agents a la Trevor Ariza his future intentions, and they felt like they had to do anything & everything they could to try and build a winner right away, so sure, they made some rash decisions that didn't pan out. As for the draft, JJ Hickson looks like he is going to be a solid player, they acquired Varajeo in a draft night deal, they originally drafted Carlos backstabber Boozer as well before he pulled his stunt and left for Utah. They also drafted Boobie Gibson who is a decent role player off the bench. Let's face it though, when you have the best record in the league 2 years in a row and were a playoff team the previous 3 seasons before that, you aren't going to have many high draft picks, and once you get outside of the first 10-20 picks, it can be a long-shot for any of those guys to make it. And Delonte West & Shaq must not be too washed up for the contending Celtics to sign both players. The other issue that hasn't been discussed, is Mike Brown just was not a very good coach - especially offensively - and that I will give you is on the organization and Danny Ferry. The sad thing is, w/Byron Scott coming in, I think the type of offense he is implementing would have worked very well w/LeCon.

And his whole, I'm from Akron, not Cleveland BS he talks about is just that; as someone who grew up in NE Ohio, the whole region is more or less viewed as one. So for him to act like he wasn't 'stabbing' his hometown in the back is just ludicrous, especially the way he went about his departure.

To answer your question, if they had all conspired to come to the Cavs, I would have an issue with it, b/c this isn't the WWE or WWF, there's supposed to be some integrity to it; unfortunately in this AAU day and age, these guys all want to team up b/c no one thinks they can be the 'man' on their own like MJ was in the 90s or Kobe is now. Not sure how you can call yourself the chosen one, yet have to ride D. Wade's coat-tails to try and get some championships. Notice how a lot of the greats, MJ, Magic, Larry Bird, Chuck Barkley to name a few didn't support his move at all.

You can think I'm just bitter b/c I'm a Cavs fans, but read some of Adrian Wojnarowski's columns on yahoo for a national perspective, he rips Lefraud in about every article he has written this summer. And I've read plenty of others as well.

If I still lived in the NE Ohio market, I would watch a lot of the Cavs games this season and probably even attend a few - I was at a game in 2003 when they won 17 games w/maybe 5000 fans on hand - and I will probably watch some Charlotte & Atlanta games as well, but like I said, for the 24 other teams not named Miami, LA Lakers, Orlando, Boston, OK City & Chicago, it's hard to get real excited for your team's upcoming season knowing they virtually have zero chance of competing for an NBA title. What I think will be funny is when RuPaul (Shaq's term, not mine) Bosh misses his annual 10 to 15 games due to injury and D. Wade blows out his shoulder or some other injury as he is seemingly banged up a lot w/the exception of last two seasons, and LeCon is out there running the pick-and-roll w/Z and 3 other scrubs virtually in the same situation he was in back when he started w/the Cavs - then it will be worth it to me to watch the cHeat to see the frustration on his face!
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Old 09-23-2010, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Extreme Southeast Philly, NJ
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Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
Why wouldn't it be worth it? I would think a professional athlete would relish this type of situation. Imagine if every player that wasn't guranteed a finals spot with an elite team around him took the approach you described above, "I'm not favored to win it all, so why try."
I wasn't completely serious with that statement. I really don't have an idea on whether or not he "quit" in the playoffs. People think these athletes are indestructible and many of you have never played sports or had a significant injury that affects the very thing that makes you money. Yes, most athletes play through injuries all season long, but everyone is different and some injuries, even the relatively minor ones, given the right circumstances can be debilitating. But if he sat on the sidelines and said he would be hurting the team trying to play, he would have gotten crushed for that too. We all want them to push through it, but they're still human.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
Also, its arguable that regular season success is worth more than playoff success when it comes to the overall evaluation of how a team is run, and the Cavs were a great regular season team. The playoffs have a ton of variables and one tough match up can send a team home. It wasn't Lebron and 11 bums on that roster at all. Obviously to fans, its all about the "rang" but only one team can get that each year. I wouldn't say every team but one has a failure of a season, but thats what your basically implying here. "Winning isnt everything, its the only thing" is a fine mantra to motivate players, but not when it comes to running an organization. Everyone takes lumps, and that doesn't make any franchise a failure or one that is poorly run--not by that standard alone.
Maybe not LeBron and 11 bums, but close to that. LeBron is THAT good. He can win games by himself crushing the average and below teams. Cavs fans are so hurt and calling him all kinds of lame names because they know they'll stink without him. Plus, the other teams like Boston and LA don't go full throttle for 82 games like the Cavs, and anyone who watches the league can tell you that. The season is too long and injuries happen. How else can teams as old as Boston and LA get to the finals? Pacing themselves.

And I'm not saying win a championship or you're a failure. But I'm saying there are lots of bad owners and GMs that aren't even interested in (or good at) being competitive with their teams. Be competitive and make better decisions or get out. Contract some of these teams and put the great players on the teams that are left. 30 teams is too many. There obviously aren't 30 worthy owners or intelligent GMs.

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Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC View Post
When you're the biggest free agent in the history of the NBA coming off of an alleged elbow injury and not have it mentioned at all? Something's amiss there, heck there was more talk about Delonte & Gloria than that, and no major media source even picked that story up.
I know, I know --- conspiracy theory. LeBron wasn't hurt at all, right?

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Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC View Post
Notice how a lot of the greats, MJ, Magic, Larry Bird, Chuck Barkley to name a few didn't support his move at all.
Old school. That was their era. That's what they did and how the felt back then. The 'rules' of the 70's, 80's, or 90's don't apply to today. And Chuck DID join the Rockets at the end to try to get a ring, but I guess you'll say the circumstances were different since he was older...

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Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC View Post
...then it will be worth it to me to watch the cHeat to see the frustration on his face!
All kinds of name-calling, laughing at guys getting hurt, and frustration by the athletes making it worth it to you is why I'm not the same kind of fan as you are. So immature, so emotional, so lame. If the Heat go 73 and 9, sweep the playoffs and win it all, how hurt will you be? If the opposite makes you happy, won't that make you cry?
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Old 09-23-2010, 06:05 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
713 posts, read 1,535,542 times
Reputation: 226
When Atlanta insists a max money deal for Joe Johnson that shows they wont go anywhere because owners are willing to pays good players superstar money.
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