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Old 12-24-2010, 02:00 PM
Status: "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
9,829 posts, read 21,132,956 times
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LeBron hints that contraction could help NBA - NBA - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aqpj7yG60eSHCzX8X5MCZ828vLYF?slug=ap-lebronjames-contraction - broken link)

“How can it be bad for basketball when you have guys who want to win playing on the same team?” he said. “Hopefully, the league can figure out one way where it can go back to the ’80s where you had three or four All-Stars, three or four superstars, three or four Hall of Famers on the same team. The league was great. It wasn’t as watered down as it is.”

“Imagine if you could take Kevin Love(notes) off Minnesota and add him to another team and you shrink the (league). Looking at some of the teams that aren’t that great, you take Brook Lopez(notes) or you take Devin Harris(notes) off these teams that aren’t that good right now and you add him to a team that could be really good.
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Old 12-24-2010, 03:19 PM
 
Location: San José, CA
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This would have been an intelligent point 5 years ago, but I actually think there's been a recent youth growth (Bill Simmons agrees) that has closed the gap and there are plenty of players internationally that could be here closing it even more.

I'll tell you what I think this is: Lebron making an obvious attempt at taking the heat/embarrassment off himself for him refusing to be THE GUY and taking his talents to where equal talents may exist. MJ, Barkley, Magic - all of these guys drilled him for doing what would have been to them to be cowardly.

It's entirely self-serving.

And what does Lebron know about the 80s? He was born in 1984. I was born in 1986, admittedly, but even I remember some of the bad Mavericks, Nuggets, Knicks, Pacers, and Clippers teams that existed in this league then.
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Old 12-24-2010, 11:05 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 2,385,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parti Rhinocéros View Post
This would have been an intelligent point 5 years ago, but I actually think there's been a recent youth growth (Bill Simmons agrees) that has closed the gap and there are plenty of players internationally that could be here closing it even more.

I'll tell you what I think this is: Lebron making an obvious attempt at taking the heat/embarrassment off himself for him refusing to be THE GUY and taking his talents to where equal talents may exist. MJ, Barkley, Magic - all of these guys drilled him for doing what would have been to them to be cowardly.

It's entirely self-serving.

And what does Lebron know about the 80s? He was born in 1984. I was born in 1986, admittedly, but even I remember some of the bad Mavericks, Nuggets, Knicks, Pacers, and Clippers teams that existed in this league then.
I agree. The league is not nearly as one sided as it was in the past and things are a lot easier now than they were then too. Back then everyone would have laughed at you if you said the Mavs would be in the finals or the Nuggets would make the semi finals. Clippers making the playoffs, etc. Bad teams do turn great and it's not due to players of equal talents coming together. Hec the Bulls were terrible after Jordan left and it was almost impossible to think they would ever bounce back, now they're a playoff team. Lebron is just trying to save face in case they get blown out tomorrow and the big 3 doesn't live up to all the hype which I'm pretty sure after its all said and done, they won't.
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Old 12-25-2010, 12:08 AM
JL
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shysister View Post
I agree. The league is not nearly as one sided as it was in the past and things are a lot easier now than they were then too. Back then everyone would have laughed at you if you said the Mavs would be in the finals or the Nuggets would make the semi finals. Clippers making the playoffs, etc. Bad teams do turn great and it's not due to players of equal talents coming together. Hec the Bulls were terrible after Jordan left and it was almost impossible to think they would ever bounce back, now they're a playoff team. Lebron is just trying to save face in case they get blown out tomorrow and the big 3 doesn't live up to all the hype which I'm pretty sure after its all said and done, they won't.
Actually, back in the 80s, the Nuggets and Mavs were very good teams. I believe the Mavs made the West Finals a couple of times with Mark Aguirre, Rolando Blackman, and Derek Harper. I remember them beating up on the Rockets. They also had Dale Ellis for a while, but he went to the Sonics who were a perennial good team with Chambers, and McDaniel. They always had the Rockets' number in the playoffs.

The Nuggets had Alex English, Dan Issel, Bill Hanzlik, and Dan Issel from what i remember. They were good from what i remember watching them.

I believe these teams knocked on the door a few times during those days but didn't quite make it.
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Old 12-25-2010, 12:24 AM
 
Location: San José, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL View Post
Actually, back in the 80s, the Nuggets and Mavs were very good teams. I believe the Mavs made the West Finals a couple of times with Mark Aguirre, Rolando Blackman, and Derek Harper. I remember them beating up on the Rockets. They also had Dale Ellis for a while, but he went to the Sonics who were a perennial good team with Chambers, and McDaniel. They always had the Rockets' number in the playoffs.

The Nuggets had Alex English, Dan Issel, Bill Hanzlik, and Dan Issel from what i remember. They were good from what i remember watching them.

I believe these teams knocked on the door a few times during those days but didn't quite make it.
This goes to his point that the NBA (and sports, in general) is cyclical. You're remembering the good Nuggets and the good Mavericks - I remember the bad, too. lol Although, I didn't realize that it wasn't the 80s that they sucked, you're right, it was the 90's.

The 1990's Nuggets saw them win 11, 14, 20, 21, and 24 games in half of their seasons that decade.

The 1990's Mavericks won just 11, 13, 19, 20, 24, and 26 in 60% of their seasons that decade.

The Clippers of the 80s were dreadful both in LA and San Diego. Lebron remembers the great Pistons teams, the Celtics, the Lakers, but he probably forgets that teams like the Clippers (low wins: 12, 17, 17), the late 80's Kings, Nets (low wins: 17, 19, 24), the Heat when they entered the league in the late 80's were dreadful, the Pacers, etc - those teams didn't have multiple all stars or multiple hall of famers.
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Old 12-25-2010, 06:36 AM
 
1,838 posts, read 2,385,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parti Rhinocéros View Post
This goes to his point that the NBA (and sports, in general) is cyclical. You're remembering the good Nuggets and the good Mavericks - I remember the bad, too. lol Although, I didn't realize that it wasn't the 80s that they sucked, you're right, it was the 90's.

The 1990's Nuggets saw them win 11, 14, 20, 21, and 24 games in half of their seasons that decade.

The 1990's Mavericks won just 11, 13, 19, 20, 24, and 26 in 60% of their seasons that decade.

The Clippers of the 80s were dreadful both in LA and San Diego. Lebron remembers the great Pistons teams, the Celtics, the Lakers, but he probably forgets that teams like the Clippers (low wins: 12, 17, 17), the late 80's Kings, Nets (low wins: 17, 19, 24), the Heat when they entered the league in the late 80's were dreadful, the Pacers, etc - those teams didn't have multiple all stars or multiple hall of famers.
Right!

I know the Mavs and Nuggets weren't always bad but I was speaking in terms of what Lebron can identify with in the NBA when I used those 2 examples. He doesn't know how those teams went from great to dreadful then back to great again and it wasn't because of "stars" coming together. He needs to realize the NBA is a competitive sport and always will be. You're not going to always be on top and when you're at the top you're not going to stay there. Players in the 80s, 70s, 60, etc. would love to have the opportunities the players of today have. They really don't realize how privileged they are that's why the old heads look at Lebron as a cop out because back then players fought through adversity and challenges much worse than what they're confronted with today. When Lebron make comments like that it just goes to show how he doesn't know the history of the NBA because if he did, he would understand where the old heads are coming from.

Now it was totally his "decision" to go to Miami to try and get a ring but if/when it doesn't happen he needs to take accountability for the fact that his "decision" backfired and didn't produce the results he wanted and he can never be 100% sure he wouldn't have gotten a ring in Cleavland but that's a "decision" he'll have to live with.
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Old 12-25-2010, 10:03 AM
Status: "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
9,829 posts, read 21,132,956 times
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It seems odd to me that there is such a gap in the NBA be so large given how many great players are on the worst teams: Blake Griffin (Clippers), Tyreke Evans (Kings), Kevin Love (Wolves), last year's Raptors w/ Chris Bosh etc etc. Why can't those teams be at least competitive???
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Old 12-25-2010, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Midwestern Dystopia
2,369 posts, read 3,057,441 times
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he's right, all sports in america are watered down.

what I'd really like to know from the status quo people is since when did essentially 32 become the magical number in the US for sports franchises? why not 36? or 28? or 38 or 40?

there are even some who believe the major pro leagues could expand. Why have we settled on 32?

I see a serious lack of fundamentals, and I see players who don't try hard all the time b/c there simply isn't enough competition for their jobs.

and what I don't understand is why more don't see it that way. I mean all the hype and hoopla about the Heat would be seen far more often and with more teams if the example LeBron gave would be implemented. Less teams, less lesser-talented players in the league and more stars per team. Seems pretty simple to me.
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Old 12-25-2010, 12:15 PM
 
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How are you going to implement who's the lesser talented from the talented? You have first rounders out of college who get in the NBA and become a bust. You have players who come out of High School who are great and some who don't make it for very long. So how are you going to put these superstar teams together when you have no idea what the productivity of a player is going to be. Kobe wasn't always the Kobe of today just like it took Jordan time to develop. Lebron is looking for an easy way out and there isn't one. There's no way to build a team centered around stars because you don't know when a player will become a star or when a star will become a bust. Kobe is great because he consistently works at being great. Just like with any job you're only as productive as the work you put in. You can't show up to work 20 hrs a week and expect to get a 40 hrs worth of work done. It doesn't work that way. Players choose how productive they want to be, it has nothing to do with it not being enough competition. A lot of them are just happy to be getting NBA money and the actual sport really isn't a big deal to them. How many players become non existent after they get a big contract? lots of them because they're playing for the $$$ and not the love of the game. That is what separates good players from great players. Just like at a normal job a manager is going to get more productivity from an employee who generally enjoys coming to work vs the employees who are only there because they have to be.

There's also things the players can't control like owners and the organization staff. They have a lot to do with what goes on with their respective teams and it all comes down to money. The teams who are not "hot" still bring in revenue to their respective cities and create jobs it's not just about the players, there are other benefits as well. People always trying to find a quick fix to something and looking for an easy way out. There is no "winning" solution. You have to take the good and bad just like with everything else in life. Lebron needs to grow up.
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Old 12-25-2010, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Southeastern Tennessee
711 posts, read 977,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shysister View Post
How are you going to implement who's the lesser talented from the talented? You have first rounders out of college who get in the NBA and become a bust. You have players who come out of High School who are great and some who don't make it for very long. So how are you going to put these superstar teams together when you have no idea what the productivity of a player is going to be. Kobe wasn't always the Kobe of today just like it took Jordan time to develop. Lebron is looking for an easy way out and there isn't one. There's no way to build a team centered around stars because you don't know when a player will become a star or when a star will become a bust. Kobe is great because he consistently works at being great. Just like with any job you're only as productive as the work you put in. You can't show up to work 20 hrs a week and expect to get a 40 hrs worth of work done. It doesn't work that way. Players choose how productive they want to be, it has nothing to do with it not being enough competition. A lot of them are just happy to be getting NBA money and the actual sport really isn't a big deal to them. How many players become non existent after they get a big contract? lots of them because they're playing for the $$$ and not the love of the game. That is what separates good players from great players. Just like at a normal job a manager is going to get more productivity from an employee who generally enjoys coming to work vs the employees who are only there because they have to be.

There's also things the players can't control like owners and the organization staff. They have a lot to do with what goes on with their respective teams and it all comes down to money. The teams who are not "hot" still bring in revenue to their respective cities and create jobs it's not just about the players, there are other benefits as well. People always trying to find a quick fix to something and looking for an easy way out. There is no "winning" solution. You have to take the good and bad just like with everything else in life. Lebron needs to grow up.
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