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Old 01-12-2011, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,248 posts, read 26,220,119 times
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^^Don't forget Travis Best and Austin Croshere!!!!
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:31 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,193,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Thanks for what? You still don't have a point regarding the issue. Lebron, Kobe and Jordan are all among the best to play the game, so nitpicking about their stats is irrelevant. The issue isn't about how one hall of fame player compares to other, it's about the criteria that is generally used to determine hall of fame worthy status. Mvp awards, multiple scoring titles, big stats on successful teams, finals MVP awards, multiple rings won as the LEADER are things that get the HOF voter's attention. Kobe, Jordan, and Lebron can all claim to own most of those awards I mention above( obviously Lebron doesn't have a ring but he has just about everything else), Horry cannot claim NONE of the above. The only distinguishable feature of his career was winning titles as probably the 4th or 5th best player on a team that would have won anyways.

There's nothing prolific about Horry's career asides from the number of titles won as a role player. Nothing else distinguishes me, and to me that doesn't make him HOF worthy. Because you could replace him with any number of players and the team winning a title would still be a forgone conclusion.

go allll theee wayyyy back to the beginning where my point was made. the point is that stats are only a PORTION of what makes a good player, a HOF worthy player. hell what makes tim duncan so good? his numbers are not ridiculous right? his numbers are not as good as malones, or barkley, but he is almost always considered the best PF ever. why is that? is it the fact that he was a good defender? did he make the players around him better? was he in the right place at the right time? how about dennis rodman? is he HOF worthy? all he did was rebound and defend, he didnt score for anything. how about on artest? is he HOF worthy? not 1st ballot for sure, maybe down the road. i would say horry is better then artest, his downfall is he played a position during a time of some of the all time greats at his spot. he isnt as good as duncan, shaq, malone, barkley surely but he has won more then 90% of the players EVER in basketball. his STATS are not big, they are better then a lot, but he has been a major part of 7 title teams, bottom line. its not like he sat on the bench like an adam morrison.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,248 posts, read 26,220,119 times
Reputation: 11701
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
hell what makes tim duncan so good? his numbers are not ridiculous right? his numbers are not as good as malones, or barkley, but he is almost always considered the best PF ever. why is that? is it the fact that he was a good defender? did he make the players around him better? was he in the right place at the right time? how about dennis rodman? is he HOF worthy? all he did was rebound and defend, he didnt score for anything. how about on artest? is he HOF worthy? not 1st ballot for sure, maybe down the road. i would say horry is better then artest, his downfall is he played a position during a time of some of the all time greats at his spot. he isnt as good as duncan, shaq, malone, barkley surely but he has won more then 90% of the players EVER in basketball. his STATS are not big, they are better then a lot, but he has been a major part of 7 title teams, bottom line. its not like he sat on the bench like an adam morrison.
Duncan is averaging 21.1 points, 11.6 boards, and 2.3 blocks for his entire career. Those are VERY impressive numbers and certainly HOF worthy.

Rodman averaged 13 boards per game for his career and pulled down 19 boards per game for an entire season. Those are impressive stats. In fact, he only trails Wilt when it comes to rebounding. We should also throw in the immaterial fact that he won 5 NBA Championships, made a couple of All-Star appearances, and helped a team achieve a regular season record that is unlikely to be matched.

Ron Artest has not come close to producing HOF stats. I'm not even convinced that he's really that good a defender.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:44 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,193,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
LOL. Mark Jackson was so far past his prime that's laughable. Chris Mullin was 37 years old at that point. Sam Perkins? A rookie Al Harrington? Rik Smits, an above average at best center? The only guy you list who's not completely LOL worthy that you'd even try to bring them into the argument is Rose.

Barely making it off the bench in the Olympics, is better than not being good enough to be invited to try out for the Olympic team.

Horry averaged 24 minutes, with the bulk of that being at the front end of his career. Is he someone you put the team on his back and have him carry you? Don't be ridiculous.

And with that, you're officially wasting my time. Have a good one.
mark jackson was only 33-34 yrs old at that time. would you say kidd or nash are past their primes now? where they 3-4 years ago when nash was winning MVPS. mark jackson is #3 on the all time list, and a ton of those came setting miller up.

you know people have been saying the spurs where to old to win with all those role players and nobodies all the way back to 2005, yet they still won 2 titles.

miller and horry played around the same time in their primes, and miller played in a very guard weak league while horry had some of the all time greats to compete with. thats the bottom line in reference to the olympics.

the last 4-5 seasons of horrys career he averaged about 15-18 minutes behind time duncan, what he was hired for. the rest of his carreer he played about 30 minutes. again a solid contributer. your acting like he didnt do anything but hit a couple of game winners, that is blatantly false.
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Old 01-12-2011, 02:50 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,193,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Duncan is averaging 21.1 points, 11.6 boards, and 2.3 blocks for his entire career. Those are VERY impressive numbers and certainly HOF worthy.

Rodman averaged 13 boards per game for his career and pulled down 19 boards per game for an entire season. Those are impressive stats. In fact, he only trails Wilt when it comes to rebounding. We should also throw in the immaterial fact that he won 5 NBA Championships, made a couple of All-Star appearances, and helped a team achieve a regular season record that is unlikely to be matched.

Ron Artest has not come close to producing HOF stats. I'm not even convinced that he's really that good a defender.

on duncan, the numbers are nice but they are not "the best ever" yet duncan is "the best ever".. why is that?

rodman is #21 on the list not #2 behind wilt on total. he is #11 on per game list at 13 per game. horry has 7 and i think both of them should be in the HOF.

i agree artest is not HOF or a great defender
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Old 01-12-2011, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,878,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
mark jackson was only 33-34 yrs old at that time. would you say kidd or nash are past their primes now? where they 3-4 years ago when nash was winning MVPS. mark jackson is #3 on the all time list, and a ton of those came setting miller up.

you know people have been saying the spurs where to old to win with all those role players and nobodies all the way back to 2005, yet they still won 2 titles.

miller and horry played around the same time in their primes, and miller played in a very guard weak league while horry had some of the all time greats to compete with. thats the bottom line in reference to the olympics.

the last 4-5 seasons of horrys career he averaged about 15-18 minutes behind time duncan, what he was hired for. the rest of his carreer he played about 30 minutes. again a solid contributer. your acting like he didnt do anything but hit a couple of game winners, that is blatantly false.
What Nash and Kidd are doing at their ages have no bearing on what Jackson was doing at that stage in his career. And for the record, yes Kidd is past his prime. Nash is a rare case to be performing at this level, at this age. That still has nothing to do with Jackson. Another strawman attempt.


There's only one previous case of a role player getting in the hall of fame that you've pointed to, and that was Sam Jones on those old Celtics teams. And he was voted in a long time ago. I seriously doubt he'd get voted in today, because there's clearly an established pattern of voting now based on a combination of factors and criteria that you can say makes a particular player noteworthy.

Robert Horry has one factor going for him, and he's not even close to the main reason for it. Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem, and Duncan are. You may as well throw Steve Kerr and Derek Fisher in there as well. Names that have been mentioned a few times and you've failed to comment on. Because you know that saying they aren't worthy more or less defeats your argument that Horry is. And I'd consider what Fisher has achieved as being more impressive as, at the very least, he's managed to maintain a starting role on 5 championship teams, all with the Lakers, as opposed to bouncing around the league hitching himself to any team with the best player(s) at the time. So if you're vouching for Horry, you need to be vouching for Fisher as well. Otherwise you have no argument.

Your Olympic excuse is pathetic. Bottomline is that if Horry was good enough to make an Olympic team, hell an ALL-STAR roster for christ sakes, he'd have made it. Your credibility just shot down another notch with that reasoning.

I don't even care to discuss the issue with you anymore, you're merely regurgitating the same old and the only person you're convincing is yourself. So I suggest we agree to disagree. For the record, the topic at hand is CURRENT players likely to make it to the hall of fame. Horry is not a current player. So if you could hop off his role playing nuts for a second, we can actually keep the conversation relevant to the thread topic.

Last edited by Roman77; 01-12-2011 at 04:33 PM..
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Old 01-12-2011, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Back in the Southland
1,054 posts, read 1,549,286 times
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you might as well put blake griffin up there because he is a beast
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:05 AM
 
51,862 posts, read 41,765,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
how about dennis rodman? is he HOF worthy? all he did was rebound and defend, he didnt score for anything.
His ppg are very close to Horry. His career points (fewer seasons) are not far behind Horry.

....and I would agree that he didn't score for anything. Ironic.
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Old 01-13-2011, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,361,809 times
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Dennis Rodmans HOF potential was discussed here:

Will Dennis Rodman be Hall of Famer?

I was in the minority of that arguement.
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Old 01-13-2011, 11:52 AM
 
51,862 posts, read 41,765,307 times
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Ok, back to current players. Here are some more that are on pace to make the HOF but aren't the slam dunks like many of the guys on the original lists.

These are guys that will likely amass the huge career stats along with multiple all-nba selections etc. Although some of them are more likely bubble selections while others are probably good bets.
-Amare
-Carmelo
-Billups
-Ginobli
-Arenas
-Vince Carter
-McGrady

This is a good chart: If you don't see the persons name up here at least once...they aren't getting in the HOF.

All-NBA & All-ABA Teams | Basketball-Reference.com
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