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Old 01-13-2011, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Cook County
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
If you haven't opened the link to the all-nba team selections check it out. The names that you see pop up over and over are almost all HOF-ers especially if they are 1st or 2nd team selections.

It has been incredibly predictive if you look at the guys making the all-nba teams back in the 80's\90's and who has gotten in the HOF.
I see your favorite player Allen Iverson made 5 1st or second NBA teams, I dont think there is any doubt he is getting in, but would you vote for him?
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,879,409 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
If you haven't opened the link to the all-nba team selections check it out. The names that you see pop up over and over are almost all HOF-ers especially if they are 1st or 2nd team selections.

It has been incredibly predictive if you look at the guys making the all-nba teams back in the 80's\90's and who has gotten in the HOF.
Saw it. Interesting to note that Vince Carter has only appeared twice, 3rd team in 2000, second in 2001( since we were discussing his credentials earlier).
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:45 PM
 
51,928 posts, read 41,791,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
I see your favorite player Allen Iverson made 5 1st or second NBA teams, I dont think there is any doubt he is getting in, but would you vote for him?
Absolutely he gets in and yes I would vote for him.

My issues with Iverson are more centered around what he did to our US olympic team ("I gotta take over"....yeah and shoot us out of games....tahnks AI. ) and how he got a pass for horrible shooting percentages throughout stretches of his career. He was the poster child for the 12-30 from the field for 30pts. and the loss era of the NBA.

Even Kobe spent a year or two playing "Iverson Ball" after Shaq left and probably made Phil Jackson consider ritual suicide. Kobe then recovered his senses and has gone on to reach his full potential which is why he is so much more highly regarded if you were to talk top 20 etc. greatest.

He still had enough talent and longevity to be an easy easy HOF pick even if you take away his MVP which is generally the golden ticket all by itself. (No MVP has failed to make the HOF)
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:11 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,196,086 times
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just saw this quote from pop on manu.

Quote:
“We would have two less championships here if it was not for Manu Ginobili. In my eyes, he’s the stud of the world”
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Old 01-13-2011, 06:41 PM
JL
 
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Wade and Manu will make it to HOF on first ballot...no doubt. Wade already has passed Kobe this year as the best SG imo.
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Old 01-15-2011, 04:30 PM
 
10,963 posts, read 8,052,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
Greg 1977 put his list out there of who, of active players he thinks are locks for first ballot HOFers.



Anyone you would take off this list, anyone you would add?
Manu is a very good NBA player but I'm not ready to put in in the Hall of Fame. He's played on teams with very good players and he's had some great individual games but he's not a guy that can carry a team on his back.
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Old 01-15-2011, 04:32 PM
 
10,963 posts, read 8,052,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
How much longer would Dwight Howard need to keep this up to get into this conversation? His career PERs are 17.7/12.7/2.1 (the last four seasons he is over 20ppg per)and he has made it to one NBA finals. Not to mention he is a freak in his health, he has played all 82 years every season of his career except for one in which he played 79. That in isolation does not go very far, but if we use that to project his future numbers, he should be playing at a high level for a long time. He just turned 25 too, so even knowing that big men can break down earlier than others, he should still have a lot of really dominant seasons in him.
Good post. He's done a lot for a guy so young. A championship would really boost his HOF creditability.
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Old 01-15-2011, 04:38 PM
 
10,963 posts, read 8,052,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Duncan is averaging 21.1 points, 11.6 boards, and 2.3 blocks for his entire career. Those are VERY impressive numbers and certainly HOF worthy.

Rodman averaged 13 boards per game for his career and pulled down 19 boards per game for an entire season. Those are impressive stats. In fact, he only trails Wilt when it comes to rebounding. We should also throw in the immaterial fact that he won 5 NBA Championships, made a couple of All-Star appearances, and helped a team achieve a regular season record that is unlikely to be matched.

Ron Artest has not come close to producing HOF stats. I'm not even convinced that he's really that good a defender.
The thing that puts Duncan over the top is CHAMPIONSHIPS. Yes he's one of the best power forwards of his era but he's combined that with CHAMPIONSHIPS.
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Old 01-15-2011, 04:47 PM
 
10,963 posts, read 8,052,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Ok, back to current players. Here are some more that are on pace to make the HOF but aren't the slam dunks like many of the guys on the original lists.

These are guys that will likely amass the huge career stats along with multiple all-nba selections etc. Although some of them are more likely bubble selections while others are probably good bets.
-Amare
-Carmelo
-Billups
-Ginobli
-Arenas
-Vince Carter
-McGrady

This is a good chart: If you don't see the persons name up here at least once...they aren't getting in the HOF.

All-NBA & All-ABA Teams | Basketball-Reference.com
Amare - He's got a pretty good shot. A championship would cement it.

Carmelo - Same as Amare

Billups - He deserves serious consideration for his time in Detroit. He was a team leader and key player on a championship team.

Ginobolli - A good player on a team of good players. I don't know if that makes him HOF material.

Arenas - He had three or four year stretch were he was on the the best shooting guards in the NBA. That does NOT constitute HOF consideration unless he turns things around and puts together some great seasons and a championship.

Vince Carter - A guy that scored a lot of points some of which were downright spectacular. But he's never proven himself the guy to put his team over the top in terms of contending for a championship. His time with the Nets where they made it to the championship twice deserves some merit.


McGrady - Great talent too many injuries.
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Old 01-16-2011, 01:54 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post

Vince Carter - A guy that scored a lot of points some of which were downright spectacular. But he's never proven himself the guy to put his team over the top in terms of contending for a championship. His time with the Nets where they made it to the championship twice deserves some merit.
Vince Carter was not on the Nets when they made the finals in 2002 and 2003. He did not join them until the 2004 season. That Nets team featured Kidd, Jefferson, and Kenyon Martin. In fact the farthest Vince Carter has ever progressed in the playoffs is the conference finals last year, when the Magic lost to the Celtics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
Manu is a very good NBA player but I'm not ready to put in in the Hall of Fame. He's played on teams with very good players and he's had some great individual games but he's not a guy that can carry a team on his back.
You could make that argument against a few players already in the Hall of fame. Joe Dumars was a good player on a very good team, played some great individual games, but wasn't someone who could carry a team on his back. He's in. James Worthy played 3rd fiddle to Magic and Kareem, had some big games( hence that nickname), but wasn't someone that would lead them to the championship. Kevin Mchale, Dennis Johnson, Robert Parish were at best complimentary stars, they're in the hall of fame. Ginobli's role on the 2005 and 2007 Spurs title teams have to be at least on the level of the contributions by someone like Joe Dumars when the Pistons won back to back. I'm sure there are plenty of examples in that same vein, but those players come to mind at the moment.

Furthermore, Ginobli has a long string of international accomplishments, both team-wise and individually. He was already a highly regarded player on the international level before his NBA rookie campaign in 2003. The Basketball hall of fame is not just for NBA players. It is a place to recognize individuals who have made significant contributions to the game of Basketball. On that note, Ginobli's NBA career on its own terms is worthy of consideration, but you combine that with his international career and he's a lock.

Last edited by Roman77; 01-16-2011 at 02:13 AM..
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