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Old 01-11-2011, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,366,040 times
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Greg 1977 put his list out there of who, of active players he thinks are locks for first ballot HOFers.

Quote:
Greg1977

Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Garnett
Wade
Kidd
Ray Allen
Pierce
Dirk
Nash
Manu (including international accomplishments)
LBJ
Anyone you would take off this list, anyone you would add?
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,366,040 times
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Without looking at the numbers, which I'll do after I post this, I was surprised to see Pierce on that list. It's no secret that myself, as well as others here, are PP-haters, but I wouldn't think he was a lock for the first ballot. I think there are plenty of young guys that are trending in this direction, most notably Rose and Durant, both of whom I would be very comfortable wagering that they will be on this list one day.
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Pierce is definitely a first ballot hall of famer in my book. He may be one of the top 10 small forwards to play the game if you look at his body of work. He's one of the most prominent players to wear Celtic green, and looking at the tradition of that franchise, that's no small feat. I think the finals MVP in 2008 solidified it for me, without that I wouldn't say he was first ballot, but he's definitely a hall of famer regardless.
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:18 AM
 
Location: spring tx
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i have been on the fence with PP. i think IF he can win another title he will be 1st ballot. IMO i think they make things to easy to get in for some and to hard for others.

case in point should robert horry be in the HOF? he doesnt have the numbers but as i said before stats are not apples to apples, he is IMO BY FAR the greatest role player in the history of the game. he was just a pure outright winner. you cant argue with 7 rings on 3 different teams. he may never make it in but he should be, if some of the others can get in.
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Old 01-12-2011, 06:54 AM
 
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Ok, there are a couple ways to get into the HOF.

1) HUGE career numbers along with some all-NBA team selections. (All-star games aren't worth as much anymore, it's the all-NBA team selections) John Stockton, Reggie Miller etc.

2) A regular season MVP award, which is pretty much an automatic. I don't believe anyone has won one and not gotten in. (Consider that Iverson and Nash are the worst recipients of the award in modern times and will still get in.)

3) Championships where you were either the finals MVP or close to it.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Robert Horry was a 'winner' because he played with the following players in their primes: Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille Oneal, Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant. Yes he did hit some very timely shots but if he was doing those same clutch shots for the Clippers, would anyone care?

The hall of fame should be reserved for players who prove themselves to the best of the best over the course of their careers. They don't necessarily have to win a title( though it certainly helps especially if you were an integral component of a title team), but their career resumes should at least have multiple all-nba teams, multiple time scoring/rebounding/assists champ or something to that effect, defensive player of the year,MVPs, finals MVPs, something that sets them apart. I respect the intangibles that Horry brought to his teams, but are we really going to say that his presence on the Rockets, Lakers, and Spurs were essential for those teams winning rings? All of those teams were winning titles with or without Robert Horry's presence. Hell, Steve Kerr won 4-5 rings didn't he, with a championship winning shot in 1997 playing for the Bulls. Does he get in? Come on now....

Last edited by Roman77; 01-12-2011 at 07:22 AM..
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post

1) HUGE career numbers along with some all-NBA team selections. (All-star games aren't worth as much anymore, it's the all-NBA team selections) John Stockton, Reggie Miller etc.
Yes, and this is where I feel Paul Pierce gets in. That he won a title in 2008 as the finals MVP was the cherry on top.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Earth
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I think we should also expand the conversation beyond first ballot, to just generally who's currently playing that will make it. Guys like Shaq, Duncan, Kobe are obvious...
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:14 AM
 
51,988 posts, read 41,825,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
Without looking at the numbers, which I'll do after I post this, I was surprised to see Pierce on that list. It's no secret that myself, as well as others here, are PP-haters, but I wouldn't think he was a lock for the first ballot. I think there are plenty of young guys that are trending in this direction, most notably Rose and Durant, both of whom I would be very comfortable wagering that they will be on this list one day.
Pierce will get into the HOF easily and here is why.

1) He has a finals MVP (and thus ring) and 4 selections to the all-nba team (2nd and 3rd).

2) He will end this season somewhere around #33 on the all time points scored list, right about where Larry Bird is and quite reasonably will finish somewhere in the top 10-20 depending upon how he holds up to injury.

3) Misc. factors such as being considered a very good defender although no selections to the all-defensive team. Played whole career with Boston.

Basically items #1 and #2 make it a lock.

If you look at the numbers, he and Reggie Miller are in the same ballpark except Pierce also has that finals MVP and an additional all-nba selection. Pierce actually should have a stronger case than Miller when it's all said and done. Even if he loses a leg in a car accident today Pierce will get in.

P.S. Ray Allen is a weaker candidate than Reggie Miller but will probably get in as well. He will finish this year in the top 30 all time scorers but is 3ish years older than Paul Pierce.

Garnett slaughters both Allen and Pierce and would get in if he'd retired years ago. (MVP, Defensive player of the year...tons and tons of all-nba and all-nba defensive selections, many 1st team) He's also scored more points than either Allen or Pierce.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
P.S. Ray Allen is a weaker candidate than Reggie Miller but will probably get in as well.
Not sure about that. Without looking at their stats, I'd imagine they're in the same ballpark in that regard, and Ray was integral to a title winning team. Their careers otherwise are comparable, though I think Ray is a bit more versatile scorer. In his prime he was quite a bit more athletic than Reggie and equally as capable a slasher as he was a shooter. Now he's more or less a shooter coming off screens, but still very effective and why he's still so valuable at age 35.

100% agree with the rest of your post.
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