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View Poll Results: Deng or Pierce
Deng 2 50.00%
Pierce 2 50.00%
Voters: 4. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-03-2011, 07:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
You acknowledge that he isn't Pierce, so there's not much more to argue, is there?

Big overstatement there at the end. Deng is the 4th most important player on that team. Pierce is either 1a or 1b, depending on how you rate his importance to a healthy Garnett. Just because stats are similar doesn't mean the two players are that comparable. No-one is catering their defensive gameplan to stopping Deng.


No one's doing it to stop Pierce either. Most teams are worried about Rondo more than Pierce. They aren't worried about Pierce more than they are worried about Garnet or Allen. Most people agree that Rondo is the key to the C's getting back to the finals. This ain't '08.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suburban_boy View Post

Deng was never asked to be the go-to guy

Boston is stacked with HOF's, great role players and a future franchise player in Rondo. The Bulls have one legit HOF, a superstar and a bunch of good defensive-minded role players and a really good (sometimes streaky) three-point shooter. Then theirs Deng, who is one of the most versatile players in the league putting up all-star numbers.
Deng hasn't been asked at any point in his career to be the go to guy because he's not a player capable of doing so. He's a good player, but he's a complimentary talent.

Yes, Boston has a stacked team. Which makes the fact that Pierce's numbers all-around better all the more impressive, because he's got more players to take away from his numbers. In spite of that, his numbers are still across the board better than Deng's, so your point about Boston's team being stacked is actually counter-productive to your argument.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suburban_boy View Post
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No one's doing it to stop Pierce either. Most teams are worried about Rondo more than Pierce. They aren't worried about Pierce more than they are worried about Garnet or Allen. Most people agree that Rondo is the key to the C's getting back to the finals. This ain't '08.
Rondo isn't a huge scoring threat. Out of all the Celtics stars, he's the lowest scoring threat. Teams don't gear their defenses to stop Rondo from going off offensively, because that's not the strength of his game. Teams DO NOT focus more offensively on Rondo than on Pierce. Pierce is still a more dangerous scorer than Deng, even if he isn't in his prime anymore. Deng is the 4th most important player on a team that isn't as stacked as the Boston team. Pierce is at worst the 2nd best player on a team with 4 legit all-stars and several other quality players.

So the argument isn't whether Deng is a quality player. He is. But is he more important to the Bulls than Pierce is the Celtics? No I don't believe him to be, nor would I pick him as an allstar over Pierce.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:37 PM
 
Location: spring tx
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the east is stronger then the west? LMAO oops there goes all that credibility again.

the east has 5 teams, and only 3 are legit title contenders as it stands, miami, boston and orlando, and orlando is on the edge of not being on that list. the west hasnt got a lot more BUT look at the ranks, 6th seed is only 2 games over .500 and the 7th/8th seeds are below .500. if you look at the league standings and the west has 10 of the top 16 teams and both sides have 5 of the top 10. the real difference is that the east has all those bad teams to beat up on to get those pretty records. teams like washington, indy, milwaukee, toronto, detroit, NJ, and the REAL BAD Cleveland cavs. sure the bulls and the celtics, and the heat have good records, but damn they play the cavs 4 times each, and washingto has to visit them 2 times each, and toronto holy crap.

as for rondo being the best player, i would say he is top 3 on the celtics but can he win a game for the celtics NO! has he won any games? does the coaching staff actually call plays for him? NO! it can be argued that he is so good BECAUSE OF guys like pierce and kg, and allen. i mean what decent PG wouldnt rack up ridiculous assists with those guys on the team? think about this, allen, pierce, and kg are all shooting over 50% from the field. (deng only shoots about 45%) rondo BARELY shoots a better % on his ft then he does fg. (.516 to .515 respectively).

and deng was NOT picked by the coaches and pierce was tonight the reserves where released.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by rigas View Post

and deng was NOT picked by the coaches and pierce was tonight the reserves where released.
Which, if it came down to the two of them, was the right call. Luol Deng is not a better player than Paul Pierce.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Deng hasn't been asked at any point in his career to be the go to guy because he's not a player capable of doing so. He's a good player, but he's a complimentary talent.

Yes, Boston has a stacked team. Which makes the fact that Pierce's numbers all-around better all the more impressive, because he's got more players to take away from his numbers. In spite of that, his numbers are still across the board better than Deng's, so your point about Boston's team being stacked is actually counter-productive to your argument.
I'm not asking who's the best player. I'm asking who deserves to be in the Allstar game more. Pierce is the better player. His number's across board are pretty much the same as Deng's with the exception of FG% and FT%. Pierce playing on a good all-around team with few long-term injuries to their most important players. Deng has played on a team who has played without at least one of their best players all year and has stepped up all year. When Boozer was out, Deng was the second scorer and averaged over 20 points per game. Now that Boozer is in the line up, he don't have to put up those numbers offensively. Once again, I don't think Pierce isn't deserving of it, but I do think that Deng deserves to be an Allstar this year.
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Old 02-03-2011, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suburban_boy View Post
I'm not asking who's the best player. I'm asking who deserves to be in the Allstar game more. Pierce is the better player. His number's across board are pretty much the same as Deng's with the exception of FG% and FT%. Pierce playing on a good all-around team with few long-term injuries to their most important players. Deng has played on a team who has played without at least one of their best players all year and has stepped up all year. When Boozer was out, Deng was the second scorer and averaged over 20 points per game. Now that Boozer is in the line up, he don't have to put up those numbers offensively. Once again, I don't think Pierce isn't deserving of it, but I do think that Deng deserves to be an Allstar this year.
My statement had nothing to do with who's the best player. Your point was Boston is a stacked team, yadda yadda. I'm saying with that in mind, Pierce's numbers are still stronger than Deng's. Which would suggest that with him having the share the ball with 3 other star players, Pierce's numbers being better is a more impressive feat. That by itself is enough of a case to say that Pierce's all-star credentials are more legit. Deng was scoring 20 ppg earlier on because there were few offensive options on the team when Boozer was injured. Noah isn't a scorer. Who else is going to step up for the Bulls? Keith Bogans? Props to Deng for stepping up, but that alone doesn't mean he should be an all-star over Pierce. Pierce would be scoring over 20ppg if he didn't have Garnett and Allen on the team, and even with those guys he's still putting up 19ppg, 5 rebounds, 3 assists and shooting 50%. All-star credentials advantage: Pierce.

At this point the argument is redundant. Pierce made the team, Deng did not.

Last edited by Roman77; 02-03-2011 at 08:16 PM..
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:06 PM
 
320 posts, read 622,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
the east is stronger then the west? LMAO oops there goes all that credibility again.

the east has 5 teams, and only 3 are legit title contenders as it stands, miami, boston and orlando, and orlando is on the edge of not being on that list. the west hasnt got a lot more BUT look at the ranks, 6th seed is only 2 games over .500 and the 7th/8th seeds are below .500. if you look at the league standings and the west has 10 of the top 16 teams and both sides have 5 of the top 10. the real difference is that the east has all those bad teams to beat up on to get those pretty records. teams like washington, indy, milwaukee, toronto, detroit, NJ, and the REAL BAD Cleveland cavs. sure the bulls and the celtics, and the heat have good records, but damn they play the cavs 4 times each, and washingto has to visit them 2 times each, and toronto holy crap.

as for rondo being the best player, i would say he is top 3 on the celtics but can he win a game for the celtics NO! has he won any games? does the coaching staff actually call plays for him? NO! it can be argued that he is so good BECAUSE OF guys like pierce and kg, and allen. i mean what decent PG wouldnt rack up ridiculous assists with those guys on the team? think about this, allen, pierce, and kg are all shooting over 50% from the field. (deng only shoots about 45%) rondo BARELY shoots a better % on his ft then he does fg. (.516 to .515 respectively).

and deng was NOT picked by the coaches and pierce was tonight the reserves where released.
First of all, Rondo is the best player on the C's. You don't have to score to be the best player, just ask Steve Nash. As the Laker's proved, if you contain Rondo, you can beat the C's.

Secondly, the only teams in the West that are legit contenders. SA and LA. Dallas is close, but they're gonna miss Caron Butler more than they think. OKC may be a wildcard, but they are a post-player away. Portland needs to get Healthy. NO is too streaky and not big enough. Denver needs to make sure that Melo stays b4 they even think about a title. Utah is still too small (I think losing Boozer is gonna hurt them more than they think). Houston is a Yao Ming and a McGrady short of being one. And the SUNS? 4get about it!!! FREE STEVE NASH!!!

The only legit contender in the East are the C's. Orlando and MIA can be beaten. MIA isn't deep enough yet. Orlando is too wishy washy. Chicago may not be their yet, but they are definitely a huuuuuuuge wild card (they definitley play championship caliber defense).

The east do have a lot of good teams this year that can compete with the West top teams such as Boston, Chicago, MIA, Orlando, ATL and NYC. Charlotte's playing much better. Milwaukee would be their but they have the injury bug this year.
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:13 PM
 
320 posts, read 622,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
My statement had nothing to do with who's the best player. Your point was Boston is a stacked team, yadda yadda. I'm saying with that in mind, Pierce's numbers are still stronger than Deng's. Which would suggest that with him having the share the ball with 3 other star players, Pierce's numbers beingl better is a more impressive feat. That by itself is enough of a case to say that Pierce's all-star credentials are more legit. Deng was scoring 20 pg earlier on because there was few offensive options on the team when Boozer was injured. Noah isn't a scorer. Pierce would be scoring over 20ppg if he didn't have Garnett and Allen on the team, and even with those guys he's still putting up 19ppg. All-star credentials advantage: Pierce.

At this point the argument is redundant. Pierce made the team, Deng did not.
I know I stopped arguing that an hour ago.
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by suburban_boy View Post
I know I stopped arguing that an hour ago.
Interesting, considering you were still making an argument on the issue 30 minutes ago, after the announcement.
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