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Old 02-16-2011, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I don't see him doing that but I don't think he has to. (Especially against defensive slower paced teams like Boston or SA.)

If he just puts up his season averages they should do just fine. I guess it will actually depend upon how those teams approach Rose in that if they swarm Rose then that means more points for Boozer, Deng, Noah etc.

I would note that in the last 30 games SA is 24-6 and the Bulls are 22-8 and Boston is 20-10.

I think that you *might* be underestimating how tough a healthy Bulls team is in the paint...it's not just Boozer is the point I'm trying to make.
I would argue that, yes, he does have to. He is the Bulls primary post weapon, so the onus will be on him to perform, because he's likely to come up against a number of quality power forwards the further the Bulls progress. Noah is certainly not going to be relied upon for post offense, so if Boozer doesn't at least put up 20-10, where else does this interior offense come from?
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
I would argue that, yes, he does have to. He is the Bulls primary post weapon, so the onus will be on him to perform, because he's likely to come up against a number of quality power forwards the further the Bulls progress. Noah is certainly not going to be relied upon for post offense, so if Boozer doesn't at least put up 20-10, where else does this interior offense come from?
1) I absolutely see Boozer putting up 20-10. (He dropped 16-16 on Orlando 2 weeks ago where the Bulls out-rebounded Orlando 54-40!)

He out-rebounded dwight howard that game.

2) *cough* Noah's numbers are right there in the ballpark with Garnetts even after adjusting for the minutes.

I'd also like to point out that the Bulls are the best rebounding team in the NBA.

2010-11 Regular Season NBA Team Stats and League Leaders - Rebounds Per Game - National Basketball Association - ESPN

4 of their next 8 games are Miami x 2, SA and Orlando. Noah isn't back yet but let's just see what happens eh?

I think you are grossly underestimating this team.
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Old 02-16-2011, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
1) I absolutely see Boozer putting up 20-10. (He dropped 16-16 on Orlando 2 weeks ago where the Bulls out-rebounded Orlando 54-40!)

He out-rebounded dwight howard that game.

2) *cough* Noah's numbers are right there in the ballpark with Garnetts even after adjusting for the minutes.

I'd also like to point out that the Bulls are the best rebounding team in the NBA.

2010-11 Regular Season NBA Team Stats and League Leaders - Rebounds Per Game - National Basketball Association - ESPN

4 of their next 8 games are Miami x 2, SA and Orlando. Noah isn't back yet but let's just see what happens eh?

I think you are grossly underestimating this team.
Is Boozer capable of putting up some 20 and 10 games? Absolutely. I'm not suggesting he can't. Can Boozer shine against the Garnett's, Bosh's, Duncan's, and Gasol's of the world enroute to the NBA championship on a nightly basis? I wouldn't bet on it, but you're free to .

The Bulls being the best rebounding team doesn't have to do with my point about post scoring. Boozer is the Bulls lone post scorer. And in the playoffs when the game slows down, you're going to need a consistent post presence on the offensive end. Honestly, Boozer is an all-star power forward but I wouldn't go as far as to say he's an elite PLAYOFFS performer, if he happens to be this year he'll have to raise his game to levels I haven't seen him in prior playoffs.

Just because Boozer happened to outrebound Dwight Howard one game a few weeks back doesn't suggest he's going to set the world on fire in the playoffs. I predict he'll be a solid playoff performer, which is more or less what I said from the beginning.

I've already said the best thing to do is wait and see, beyond that I don't know what else to say about this particular topic.
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Is Boozer capable of putting up some 20 and 10 games? Absolutely. I'm not suggesting he can't. Can Boozer shine against the Garnett's, Bosh's, Duncan's, and Gasol's of the world enroute to the NBA championship on a nightly basis? I wouldn't bet on it, but you're free to .

The Bulls being the best rebounding team doesn't have to do with my point about post scoring. Boozer is the Bulls lone post scorer. And in the playoffs when the game slows down, you're going to need a consistent post presence on the offensive end. Honestly, Boozer is an all-star power forward but I wouldn't go as far as to say he's an elite PLAYOFFS performer, if he happens to be this year he'll have to raise his game to levels I haven't seen him in prior playoffs.

Just because Boozer happened to outrebound Dwight Howard one game a few weeks back doesn't suggest he's going to set the world on fire in the playoffs. I predict he'll be a solid playoff performer, which is more or less what I said from the beginning.

I've already said the best thing to do is wait and see, beyond that I don't know what else to say about this particular topic.
I'm not saying he will put up 20-10 SOME games....he will average that in the playoffs.

Just how much he scores will be dictated by how the opposition decides to defend Rose, Deng, him etc. while keep guys like Noah off the O-boards.

Boozer isn't going to carry the Bulls....but that's not his job.

So, I guess where we disagree is that the Bulls are going to need him scoring 25+ a night to beat teams like Boston etc. which quite frankly they haven't needed to beat the top teams they have beaten this season.

P.S. I still think it's interesting that Noah's numbers match Garnetts. Just saying....
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I'm not saying he will put up 20-10 SOME games....he will average that in the playoffs.

Just how much he scores will be dictated by how the opposition decides to defend Rose, Deng, him etc. while keep guys like Noah off the O-boards.

Boozer isn't going to carry the Bulls....but that's not his job.

So, I guess where we disagree is that the Bulls are going to need him scoring 25+ a night to beat teams like Boston etc. which quite frankly they haven't needed to beat the top teams they have beaten this season.

P.S. I still think it's interesting that Noah's numbers match Garnetts. Just saying....

Boozer is the second option, so he's going to have to produce big. I don't see how that point can really be argued. I don't see Deng being a major factor against Boston's D, so aside from Rose I'm curious as to who else you believe will produce enough firepower( beyond Rose).

Not sure about where Noah's numbers factor into your argument. Certainly he's not someone you're planning to look to in the playoffs for post offense? Really it comes down to matchups at the end of the day.
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Old 02-16-2011, 03:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Boozer is the second option, so he's going to have to produce big. I don't see how that point can really be argued. I don't see Deng being a major factor against Boston's D, so aside from Rose I'm curious as to who else you believe will produce enough firepower( beyond Rose).

Not sure about where Noah's numbers factor into your argument. Certainly he's not someone you're planning to look to in the playoffs for post offense? Really it comes down to matchups at the end of the day.
We are just going to have to agree to disagree about just how a declining Garnett is going to shut boozer down while the rest of the Boston D crushes everyone but Rose.

Bulls beat Boston by 11 last time they faced them with Garnett and Noah both out. Boston got TORCHED on the glass. I'm just saying that yeah...if Garnett were still near his prime then yeah the Bulls would get rolled but that just isn't the case.

Yeah, if they want to double Boozer in the paint like he used to face in the playoffs....then no, they can't keep Deng honest, can't keep Noah off the glass with big crappy and sure as heck aren't going to stop Rose. This is where I think we aren't seeing eye-2-eye...that Boozer just can't be doubled like before and a declining Garnett isn't going to shut him down 1on1.

P.S. Noah will get his points in the paint, not the post....but yeah he will get a bunch of nice dunks and tip ins.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Cook County
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Taj Gibson scores in the post fairly well and Omar Asik might get you a few quality possesions in the paint as well. Sure Boozer carries the load, but Noahs offense was getting better pre-injury. Between Noahs return and Gibsons/Asiks bench play (I didnt mention Thomas even though he is playing out of his mind right now, because Im not sure its sustainable) I think they are just fine.

I think we would have some nervous Boston fans if its Chi/Bos in the ECF
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
We are just going to have to agree to disagree about just how a declining Garnett is going to shut boozer down while the rest of the Boston D crushes everyone but Rose.

Bulls beat Boston by 11 last time they faced them with Garnett and Noah both out. Boston got TORCHED on the glass. I'm just saying that yeah...if Garnett were still near his prime then yeah the Bulls would get rolled but that just isn't the case.

Yeah, if they want to double Boozer in the paint like he used to face in the playoffs....then no, they can't keep Deng honest, can't keep Noah off the glass with big crappy and sure as heck aren't going to stop Rose. This is where I think we aren't seeing eye-2-eye...that Boozer just can't be doubled like before and a declining Garnett isn't going to shut him down 1on1.

P.S. Noah will get his points in the paint, not the post....but yeah he will get a bunch of nice dunks and tip ins.
Garnett is very much still a relevant player, this is not the hobbling Garnett of the past 2 years. He is very capable of giving a strong defensive effort against Boozer, even now, and the point being overlooked is that the Celtics employ the best team defense in the league.

The Bulls beat Boston by 11 last time, yeah...guess what, the Cavs just beat the Lakers tonight. Kinda goes to show how much stock you can put in the regular season, doesn't it?

If you want a preview of how the Celtics would deal with Rose, watch how they play D.Wade, who is very similar in style to how Rose plays.

Somehow I feel that you being a Bulls fans prevents any kind of objective discussion regarding said team. As I said, we'll wait and see how this all plays out.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:28 AM
 
52,460 posts, read 42,188,366 times
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Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Garnett is very much still a relevant player, this is not the hobbling Garnett of the past 2 years. He is very capable of giving a strong defensive effort against Boozer, even now, and the point being overlooked is that the Celtics employ the best team defense in the league.

The Bulls beat Boston by 11 last time, yeah...guess what, the Cavs just beat the Lakers tonight. Kinda goes to show how much stock you can put in the regular season, doesn't it?

If you want a preview of how the Celtics would deal with Rose, watch how they play D.Wade, who is very similar in style to how Rose plays.

Somehow I feel that you being a Bulls fans prevents any kind of objective discussion regarding said team. As I said, we'll wait and see how this all plays out.
Objective? Ok, let's talk numbers.

1) This is a Bulls team that went 11-4 in January with wins against Boston, Orlando, Miami and Dallas. Not pointing to one game, but the fact that they had a good month beating quality opponents.

2) The same team that after starting 9-8 has to within 2.5 games of the Celtics for the best record in the east. Boston might wind up sliding to the #3 seed as Chicago and Miami have been running them down but there might not be enough season left, very interesting.

I'm not saying the Bulls would be favored in the series, Boston is very very good and has more experience. What I am saying is that they are going to be one heckuva handfull for whomever runs into them in the playoffs. I think you are grossly underestimating them.

P.S. Defense? Look who is #2....

2010-11 Regular Season NBA Team Stats and League Leaders - Defense Per Game - National Basketball Association - ESPN

And here, boston #1, Chicago #2....
2010-11 Regular Season NBA Team Stats and League Leaders - Team Comparison Per Game - National Basketball Association - ESPN
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post

I'm not saying the Bulls would be favored in the series, Boston is very very good and has more experience. What I am saying is that they are going to be one heckuva handfull for whomever runs into them in the playoffs. I think you are grossly underestimating them.
Math my friend, I haven't said anything about the Bulls being an easy out. I wouldn't want to face them in the playoffs. My comments were with regards to my guy feeling, on past history, that Carlos Boozer is a very good player but not a solid number 2 guy on a championship team. I'm quite happy to be proven wrong on that, but this is what I feel based on what I've seen from him. That's a totally separate point from whether or not the Bulls are a 'handful'. Of course they are, I've never claimed otherwise.

The only issue I have with your analysis, is that while you bring up a variety of stats to show how the Bulls rank and who've they've beaten, in the playoffs the slate is wiped clean. What their record is, who they beat in January, how their defense ranks in the regular season, so on and so on more or less gets tossed out the window come playoff time. The playoffs are whole other kettle of fish, I'm sure I'm not telling you something you don't know already.
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