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View Poll Results: Whose the best PG of 2010/11
D. Rose 14 53.85%
Chris Paul 4 15.38%
D. Will 3 11.54%
Rondo 2 7.69%
Russell Westbrook 1 3.85%
Other 2 7.69%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-15-2011, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
And this makes him the best PG in the league.
I'm not sure he's the best point guard, in terms of how he plays the position. But he arguably could be the best player at the PG spot, if that makes any sense. By the same token, 10 years ago Gary Payton was arguably a better player than Jason Kidd, but Kidd was the better point guard, in terms of how he played the position. Then again, how the PG role is being played continues to be redefined over and over. One could make the argument that John Stockton played the point better than Magic did,from a traditional sense, but no-one would confuse that as saying he was a better player than Magic.
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:52 PM
 
Location: spring tx
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Winning an MVP does not mean your the best player, it only means you where the most valuable to your team. If it was best player then shaq, Kobe and Duncan would have 5-6-7 each
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:58 PM
 
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And Jordan would have about 10.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rigas View Post
Winning an MVP does not mean your the best player, it only means you where the most valuable to your team. If it was best player then shaq, Kobe and Duncan would have 5-6-7 each
Good point. It's also just for the Regular Season which a lot of the veteran teams with minutes management and the playoffs on their mind don't kill themselves to finish with the top records.

So many voters with different criteria....but generally speaking if your team finishes very very high in the standings and you were the stud player....you will be in the running.

I also think that the voters like to spread the award around a bit unless they really don't have a choice.
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Old 03-15-2011, 02:51 PM
 
Location: spring tx
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yes there are a lot of criteria changes every year. i mean dirk was definitely not the best player in the league but his team had the best record, if that math where to hold true then manu would win it this year but he has little chance. steve nash has never been the best player in the league but he was clearly the most valuable to his team who happened to be a top team in the standings the 2 years he won. nash took one of kobes and i think dirk took kobes other one. garnett IMO took duncans mvp in 04 also.

bottom line, much like allstar voting, MVP is subjective.
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:09 AM
 
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The 2nd year Nash won MVP in 2005-6, Kobe was far more valuable to his team. The Lakers didn't meet the criteria of having one of the league's best record, but seeing what Kobe had to work with ( Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Walton, Odom) it's amazing that team won 45 games in a very talent-rich Western conference. Nash more or less won the 2nd MVP because his stats were higher than the previous year, the Suns still won 54 games( 62 the prior year) and Amare was injured most of the year. So it didn't 'make sense' to not award it again to Nash, but to me Shaq, Kobe, and Dirk all would been viable MVP picks that season.
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Old 03-16-2011, 10:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rigas View Post
yes there are a lot of criteria changes every year. i mean dirk was definitely not the best player in the league but his team had the best record, if that math where to hold true then manu would win it this year but he has little chance. steve nash has never been the best player in the league but he was clearly the most valuable to his team who happened to be a top team in the standings the 2 years he won. nash took one of kobes and i think dirk took kobes other one. garnett IMO took duncans mvp in 04 also.

bottom line, much like allstar voting, MVP is subjective.
Best record (or nearly so) and dominant player on the team are generally a very high chance of winning MVP.

Basically you have San Antonio with the best record but no dominant player and then about 4 teams in a cluster behind that with Dirk, Rose and Kobe being the eligible guys. Durant and Lebron will get quite a few votes too.

Frankly, this is IMO a real toss-up year for MVP and the winner will be one of those 5 guys. I'm thinking Kobe might actually win it.
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Old 03-16-2011, 10:23 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
The 2nd year Nash won MVP in 2005-6, Kobe was far more valuable to his team. The Lakers didn't meet the criteria of having one of the league's best record, but seeing what Kobe had to work with ( Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Walton, Odom) it's amazing that team won 45 games in a very talent-rich Western conference. Nash more or less won the 2nd MVP because his stats were higher than the previous year, the Suns still won 54 games( 62 the prior year) and Amare was injured most of the year. So it didn't 'make sense' to not award it again to Nash, but to me Shaq, Kobe, and Dirk all would been viable MVP picks that season.
That was part of the post-Shaq era and to be honest Kobe wasn't playing to his full potential that season. He was on a mission to prove his greatness and while leading the league in scoring took a lot of shots.

Basically, I felt Kobe actually regressed in his play from where he was the last season he played with Shaq...until winning his MVP 3 seasons later. He had those 2 back to back "look at me" type seasons where the Lakers managed a total of 3 playoff wins and he got a pair of scoring trophies. After that he calmed down, his shooting percentage went up etc.

There are a lot of people that look at the last few years of Kobe playing at an incredible level that forget that he wasn't nearly that good at early times in his career.
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Old 03-16-2011, 10:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
That was part of the post-Shaq era and to be honest Kobe wasn't playing to his full potential that season. He was on a mission to prove his greatness and while leading the league in scoring took a lot of shots.

Basically, I felt Kobe actually regressed in his play from where he was the last season he played with Shaq...until winning his MVP 3 seasons later. He had those 2 back to back "look at me" type seasons where the Lakers managed a total of 3 playoff wins and he got a pair of scoring trophies. After that he calmed down, his shooting percentage went up etc.

There are a lot of people that look at the last few years of Kobe playing at an incredible level that forget that he wasn't nearly that good at early times in his career.
Kobe had to have carte blanche in order for that team to be remotely successful( as in winning record successful, forget any championship aspirations). It provided him with an opportunity to showcase his scoring talents and be 'the man' which he had long craved, no doubt, but that squad wouldn't have won 20 games without him taking that big a scoring load. In terms of most valuable to his team, you'd be hard-pressed to make a case that the Suns would drop off further if you removed Nash, then if you took Kobe off that Lakers team. They had, outside of Odom, nobody.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Kobe had to have carte blanche in order for that team to be remotely successful( as in winning record successful, forget any championship aspirations). It provided him with an opportunity to showcase his scoring talents and be 'the man' which he had long craved, no doubt, but that squad wouldn't have won 20 games without him taking that big a scoring load. In terms of most valuable to his team, you'd be hard-pressed to make a case that the Suns would drop off further if you removed Nash, then if you took Kobe off that Lakers team. They had, outside of Odom, nobody.
You just used the patented Allen Iverson defense.

They went from losing in the Finals to a .415 team the next year and Kobe shot his lowest career FG% since he was a teenager that year.

We've seen "good" players (look at Orlando) after Shaq left town turn into mediocre or worse when they were no longer getting wide open shots and single coverage. Kobe had to adjust his game, and he did....but make no mistake about it....Kobe had a transition period post-Shaq before finally arriving at the pinnacle of his abilities.

I know there are a lot of Laker fans that conveniently forget that Kobe hasn't always played at an MVP level...these are the same ones that shooed Shaq out the gate because they felt Kobe was the best player in the league at that time. Oooops. But for a gift-trade of Pau Gasol.....they'd still be moaning in LA.
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