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Old 02-22-2011, 11:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
i would say amare, melo and cp would rival miamis big 3 right off the bat. it would all depend on who they can get to sign for real cheap to fill the roster. i think miami gets A LOT better next year when they can sign a good midlevel exception guy. the biggest difference between the 2 teams would be the defensive end of the floor, eric s is a bit more of a defensive coach then porn stache is.
Is CP an unrestricted FA? They don't have anything left to trade for him at this point.....
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Old 02-22-2011, 11:38 AM
 
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On a side note, I'm not sure I've ever seen this much talent move around the NBA in such a short time period before.

Lebron, Bosh, Carmelo, Boozer, Amare....at least 3 of those guys are top20 (or higher) in the NBA and I'm probably forgetting some others.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
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Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Considering that Anthony made no secret of the fact that New York was where he wanted to play, and he was about to become a free agent, then it seems to me that Denver should have been the desperate team, not the Knicks. Why trade anyone when you could have gotten Anthony without giving anybody up?

Basically, what happened was that the Knicks gave in to pressure that was created by the media. I bet the decision came from James Dolan--Donnie Walsh was told what to do, in no uncertain terms.
Yes he wanted to come to NY but not at a MUCH lower price. If he opted out of his final year and hit free agency he would have signed for much less with the Knicks and everyone knew Carmelo DID NOT want to sign for less. That's why Carmelo said he would possibly extend with Denver about a week ago. This was leverage. No matter what Carmel wanted NY ONLY if it was for a max deal. No ifs ands or buts.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs,CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
On a side note, I'm not sure I've ever seen this much talent move around the NBA in such a short time period before.

Lebron, Bosh, Carmelo, Boozer, Amare....at least 3 of those guys are top20 (or higher) in the NBA and I'm probably forgetting some others.
Yea, and they all have one thing in common. 0 Championship Rings between all of them. All overrated imo. I don't think the nba owners are too happy at this point. Im expecting a lockout.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTownNative View Post
Yea, and they all have one thing in common. 0 Championship Rings between all of them. All overrated imo. I don't think the nba owners are too happy at this point. Im expecting a lockout.
The old curmudgeon Boston fans used to say that about Jordan and others.
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Old 02-22-2011, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs,CO
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Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
The old curmudgeon Boston fans used to say that about Jordan and others.
Yea but try being a Cleveland sports fan, what chance do my hometown teams have of retaining a superstar when there is this huge emphasize on playing in New York, LA, Chicago, Miami, and Boston? And Im sure you've already heard the talk about CP3 or Deron Williams going to the Knicks in free agency of 2012. Its becoming a joke imo.

Last edited by CTownNative; 02-22-2011 at 01:18 PM..
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:29 PM
 
Location: spring tx
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this is hollingers take on the trade and i cant agree more.

Quote:
New York: D+

You can't evaluate this as you would a normal trade. This deal was made at gunpoint, and that colors the entire assessment.

Anthony became the first player in memory to issue a trade demand and then list one team that he'd accept a trade to. And then somehow, the Knicks decided to start bidding against themselves and repeatedly agreed to up the ante in the final hours.

New York could have had Anthony this summer while losing only Chandler (a restricted free agent they would have had to renounce). Their primary risk to that outcome was a "franchise tag" in the new collective bargaining agreement that would have allowed Denver to keep Anthony. But even then plenty of alternatives were available for the Knicks, as three better players -- Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Dwight Howard -- all seemed anxious to get to the Big Apple via power plays of their own, and one of the three (or another marquee star) may have wriggled free regardless of what new restrictions the next CBA imposes.

This isn't Indiana or Memphis, and this saga laid that reality bare. Even with a franchise tag rule, New York had so many advantages that it was only a matter of time before a second star showed up, especially given the salary cap space the Knicks had carved out.

To get a player like Anthony in those circumstances, it was worth paying something above just Chandler to convert a likely outcome to a certainty.

But in this case the premium New York paid was as follows, beyond Chandler:

• Gallinari
• Mozgov
• Their 2014 first-round draft pick
• Golden State's second-round picks in 2012 and 2013 (owned by the Knicks)
• $6 million in cash ($3 million each to Minnesota and Denver)
• Swallowing two dead-money years at the end of Balkman's contract
• Trading Anthony Randolph for Corey Brewer
• Trading Felton for Billups, making New York eight years older at the point guard spot with a player who makes nearly twice in salary next season. Remind again why they needed to commit to all eight of these additional considerations for a player they were likely to get anyway?

The worst part, of course, is that this deal proves that no matter how many advantages New York gains from its magnetic appeal to potential free agents, owner James Dolan will screw them up. Leaning on the genius of Isiah Thomas -- because it worked out so well for the first time -- he fell hook, line and sinker for every bluff thrown his way by the Nuggets and Melo's people. (Yes, Melo's people participated -- Anthony needed to make sure he got a lucrative contract extension under the current salary rules before being traded.)

New York still gets its Melo-Stoudemire nucleus, but now lacks the supporting pieces to do anything important with that core. And by extending Melo now, they agree to lock him up at such an expensive price that, in concert with Stoudemire's deal, it likely precludes making a run at Chris Paul, Deron Williams or Dwight Howard in 2012.
Quote:
Denver: B+

With a loaded gun pointed at their heads, the Nuggets bluffed and schemed their way to a very palatable end-game by running circles around the New York area's battling ownership groups. Using New Jersey for leverage and hoping the Knicks were foolish enough to take the bait, Denver eventually squeezed terms that got the Nuggets under the luxury tax line -- a sizable fit considering they were $13 million over -- brought in a much younger point guard, two quality forwards, a young big man, a first-round pick, two second-round picks and cash.

That's not a bad haul, and it still may be improved upon. With Lawson ready to move up to the starting role, it appears Felton may be moved on to a third team. It's not out of the question that Denver could still make the playoffs, and if the Nuggets can hang on to center Nene Hilario -- another of the Nuggets' potential free agents -- Denver will come out of this in far better shape than most teams that lose a star player.

Minnesota: B+

I like Brewer, but I'd trade him for Randolph in a heartbeat. Brewer is a solid role player who plays great defense but can't shoot or dribble. That type of player has his uses, but that's all Brewer will ever be. Helpful, yes, but fungible too.

Randolph has a lower floor but a much higher ceiling. He can't shoot, he weighs 11 pounds and he's a head case. On the other hand, he has rare shot-blocking talent, handles the ball unusually well for a player of his size, and is an elite athlete. He's a potential game-changer at the defensive end and, if the light bulb ever comes on, he's going to provide a very potent complement to Kevin Love's skills in the Minnesota frontcourt.

The price of that trade was just swallowing Curry's expiring contract, but because of the difference in salary between Brewer and Randolph and the $3 million coming from New York, it's pretty much a wash financially. Basically it amounts to a free talent upgrade for Minnesota just for loaning out their cap space to get the Nuggets under the luxury tax.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs,CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
this is hollingers take on the trade and i cant agree more.
I also agree with that assessment of the trade as well. These teams(The Heat and Knicks) are putting all their eggs in one basket while forgetting several things. Lebron and Carmelo are obviouslly very talented players, but neither proved they could win a championship with their former teams and have to go somewhere else where its not even a lock for either team to make it to the championship, and in the Knicks case maybe even the second round. They are also not factoring in injuries which could occur, look at the Heat this year. What about a possible lockout? If those teams don't win a championship this year and theres a lockout next season, than thats 2 years without a championship. Now yea I would definetly consider the Heat a contender for a championship, but that doesn't mean they're going to win it. Remember the Cavs the previous 2 seasons, having the best record meant nothing. And yes the Cavs did have other talent besides Lebron, likewise did the Nuggets. Also aren't these teams now pretty much finacially tied up to the point they are kind of stuck with what they have?
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:01 PM
 
51,950 posts, read 41,815,822 times
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Originally Posted by CTownNative View Post
Yea but try being a Cleveland sports fan, what chance do my hometown teams have of retaining a superstar when there is this huge emphasize on playing in New York, LA, Chicago, Miami, and Boston? And Im sure you've already heard the talk about CP3 or Deron Williams going to the Knicks in free agency of 2012. Its becoming a joke imo.
New York has been one of the crappier teams in the league for a decade or so. Chicago was even worse on and off since the Jordan era.

San Antonio has had a great franchise as has Orlando etc.

Frankly, the Cavs problems have been because of the management decisions and not anything to do with Cleveland as a town IMO. Honestly, they failed to put anything good around Lebron (as evidenced by this seasons performance) and he eventually moved on. Imagine Kobe if the Lakers hadn't brought in Gasol? No rings and looking for a trade?
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs,CO
2,368 posts, read 6,830,570 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
New York has been one of the crappier teams in the league for a decade or so. Chicago was even worse on and off since the Jordan era.

San Antonio has had a great franchise as has Orlando etc.

Frankly, the Cavs problems have been because of the management decisions and not anything to do with Cleveland as a town IMO. Honestly, they failed to put anything good around Lebron (as evidenced by this seasons performance) and he eventually moved on. Imagine Kobe if the Lakers hadn't brought in Gasol? No rings and looking for a trade?
Im gonna have to agree with you on their management issues, they made alot of mistakes. Making trades they shouldn't have, signing players they shouldn't have. The biggest mistake the made though was when they didn't get a long term commitment from Lebron James they should have traded him. The Nuggets learned from the Cavs mistake and didn't listen to all that "im keeping my options open" stuff. And the Nuggets may actually be better off prepared to contend sooner than later.
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