U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-02-2011, 12:58 PM
 
51,901 posts, read 41,774,553 times
Reputation: 32373

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
Lebron is already a powerhouse. No mentor needed. He practically mentored/s others see guys like J.J. Hickson. He carried a whole team by HIMSELF in Cleveland; (see Cavs drop from #1 team to league worst team in one year). Lebron is unlike most players to ever play the game in that he has his head screwed on right when he entered the league. He knows what he wants, he has influence to pull others, and he is a great overall player (no one is as big as he is with the ball handling skills his possess; NO ONE). It's why he has been MVP for the past 2 years and most likely will even receive it this year, and he is playing with another Top 5 player and Top 20 player (i.e. his numbers should be down).

Anyone who doesn't think Lebron is the best NBA player is a pure hater. Plain and Simple.
1) He probably won't win MVP year.
2) Before you were born there was this guy named Dominique and also a guy named Magic that were passable ball handlers.
3) Your thread reminds me of what people used to say about Pheonix....they have a 2 time MVP and another guy in the top 5 and another guy in the top 20.....and they couldn't beat the tougher teams in the league either.

Don't get me wrong...Lebron is great and is certainly one of the best players in the league but he isn't perfect and can get better.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-02-2011, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,945,259 times
Reputation: 1357
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
wow i am sensing a lot of love for lebron from someone. i would say the love is a bit TO MUCH though.

sure lebron has done a lot of things and is capable of more BUT he is in no way what he could be or could have been. his shot is SO-SO at best, his passing is slightly above average. his decision making is pretty good, but he relies on his size and strength way to much. he is a bull in a china shop when he goes to the basket. THAT leads to short careers. lebron never once made his teammates better, he lead the way, sure but some of thsoe guys are playing better without him (ie jj hickson). he didnt teach them how to play, he showed them how to get him the ball and get out of the way. he is a self promoting narcissist BUT he has the talent to back it up.

as for the cavs going from top to bottom, he isnt the ONLY reason it happened. sure he was a major factor but he wasnt the sole factor. injuries to key players like mo williams, and andy v, the loss of west, big z, shaq, all factors in the terrible season. there is not a doubt in my mind or that of most others that if JUST LEBRON left the cavs would miss the playoffs BUT they would also not be the dead last team either.
I would say you hate him.

The only thing I will give you is that his jumpshot is not the best and he is a narcissist; in his defense, the NBA and its fan allowed him to get that way. Beyond that...
- "Passing slighty above average" - did you see the no-look Sports Center gone crazy pass against the Knicks... yeah I would say his passing is really great for a guy his size. He could practically play point if he wanted.
- "Never once made his teammates better" - again look at the Cavs this year.
"Showed them how to get him the ball..." - yeah that describes his team leading 8.6 assists average with those scrubs last year

He was the sole reason of the Cavs collapse. They banked on retaining him. All the pieces were there for him. He left and the pieces couldn't do anything.

Let's go down your roster of "super cavs players".
- Shaq - dude should have retired after Miami. He only played 53 games i.e. not really part of the success of the team. He is not the same guy that was in Orlando, LA, or Miami.
- West - he played 60 games and came off the bench i.e. not really part of the success of the team.
- Ilgauskas - another has been.
All of these 3 didn't average more than 25 minutes a game when they got to play. Where are they are now... West barely sees the floor and Ilgauskas probably doesn't even suit up being behind Dampier and Anthony. That leaves Shaq who still can't stay on the floor too long due to age.

As for this years team, Sessions > Williams. Non-factor, especially now he was dealt. Varejo...could be a semi factor but not a huge one. He wasn't a scorer just a good rebounder. Instead, they now start Jamison who is an all around better player (even this late in his career) than Varejo is. Again, another non-factor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-02-2011, 11:11 PM
 
Location: Here or There
3,960 posts, read 2,511,103 times
Reputation: 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
2) Before you were born there was this guy named Dominique and also a guy named Magic that were passable ball handlers.
I agree with Magic...Magic was a good ballhandler...Dominique? Not exactly. No one was going to confuse Dominique for running the point on those Hawks teams.

But my question is, how big was Oscar Robertson? Was he big to be handling the ball for that era?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2011, 06:33 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,194,022 times
Reputation: 1982
the big O was 6'5" 220 lbs. thats big for a PG but about right for a 2 guard. thats an inch shorter and 20 lbs heavier then manu who is a very good ball handler too.

@ncopus99
you got it all wrong. so because i dont agree with you i HATE lebron? your joking right? lebron is a top 3-5 player in the league. if the NBA broke up today and started over, allowing all the teams to pick a player one at a time till they where full, would lebron go 1st? as a draw MAYBE. now lets say if the teams picked for the sole reason of win it all this year and repick next year, would lebron go 1st? NO WAY! i would not be surprised if he was not picked 10th, or 2nd, or 5th but he would not be 1st.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2011, 06:40 AM
 
51,901 posts, read 41,774,553 times
Reputation: 32373
Quote:
Originally Posted by IXCell View Post
I agree with Magic...Magic was a good ballhandler...Dominique? Not exactly. No one was going to confuse Dominique for running the point on those Hawks teams.

But my question is, how big was Oscar Robertson? Was he big to be handling the ball for that era?
Good point about OR. 6'5 and #5 on the carreer assists chart. Keep in mind Lebron is 6'8 but that brings up Scottie Pippen whom at 6'7 pretty much was the Bulls point guard for at least the 2nd 3-peat not to mention Jordan was 6'6.

Nique wasn't playing in a system where he was called upon to be the ball handler so I can't defend that....but he could put the ball on the floor and get to the rim very effectively.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2011, 06:44 AM
 
51,901 posts, read 41,774,553 times
Reputation: 32373
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
the big O was 6'5" 220 lbs. thats big for a PG but about right for a 2 guard. thats an inch shorter and 20 lbs heavier then manu who is a very good ball handler too.

@ncopus99
you got it all wrong. so because i dont agree with you i HATE lebron? your joking right? lebron is a top 3-5 player in the league. if the NBA broke up today and started over, allowing all the teams to pick a player one at a time till they where full, would lebron go 1st? as a draw MAYBE. now lets say if the teams picked for the sole reason of win it all this year and repick next year, would lebron go 1st? NO WAY! i would not be surprised if he was not picked 10th, or 2nd, or 5th but he would not be 1st.
Win it all THIS year Lebron probably goes #2 behind Kobe. Keeping in mind that Kobe was NOT at his full potential at age 26 either. (Physically yes but his decision making etc. weren't matured.)

If I'm drafting to build a team around someone I take Dwight Howard right now. There are a number of Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Carmelo, Rose etc scores out there I could pair with him but there is NO ONE (including Gasol, Amare etc.) in Howards solar system right now. All other positions have at least a couple "close enough" substitutes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2011, 06:48 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,194,022 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Win it all THIS year Lebron probably goes #2 behind Kobe. Keeping in mind that Kobe was NOT at his full potential at age 26 either. (Physically yes but his decision making etc. weren't matured.)

If I'm drafting to build a team around someone I take Dwight Howard right now. There are a number of Lebron, Wade, Kobe, Carmelo, Rose etc scores out there I could pair with him but there is NO ONE (including Gasol, Amare etc.) in Howards solar system right now. All other positions have at least a couple "close enough" substitutes.
that was my whole point earlier in the thread when i was told i HATE lebron because of it.

to the second half, see the thread i started on re-picking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2011, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,945,259 times
Reputation: 1357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
1) He probably won't win MVP year.
We will see. Derrick Rose might be the front runner but last night shows he is far from polished enough to get it.

Quote:
2) Before you were born there was this guy named Dominique and also a guy named Magic that were passable ball handlers.
I am alot older than you might think. I grew up watching those guys. Dominque like others stated was far from that. He was a pure scorer; that's it. He would slash to the basket and get the ball passed to him down the lane (no ball handling needed). Magic was great but Magic also hasn't been in the league since 96 (15 years ago). Magic is also one of the greatest players to ever play the game so what does this have to do with anything... proving that Lebron is just as great as Magic

Quote:
3) Your thread reminds me of what people used to say about Pheonix....they have a 2 time MVP and another guy in the top 5 and another guy in the top 20.....and they couldn't beat the tougher teams in the league either.
First off, this isn't my thread. Next, are you talking about Nash and Amare? Steve Nash is great offensively but one of the worst defenders in the NBA i.e. far from Top 5. Amare is a one dimensional player who also lacks a defensive presense. So you can claim maybe Top 25 at that point when Phoenix was at that prime. To the comment, that team I always stated that team was a 1 and out team since they couldn't play defense. It's why I feel NY wont do better than an 6-8 team because it is the same coach with the same lack of importance of defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas
you got it all wrong. so because i dont agree with you i HATE lebron? your joking right? lebron is a top 3-5 player in the league. if the NBA broke up today and started over, allowing all the teams to pick a player one at a time till they where full, would lebron go 1st? as a draw MAYBE. now lets say if the teams picked for the sole reason of win it all this year and repick next year, would lebron go 1st? NO WAY! i would not be surprised if he was not picked 10th, or 2nd, or 5th but he would not be 1st.
In both scenarios, Lebron would go #2 only to Dwight Howard (easily the best big man in the league by miles). Guaranteed. Look at last Post Season. Every team pitched for him instead of all those other great free agents in easily the best free agency market the NBA has had. Teams prepared years in advance to clear their rosters in order to have money for him that year (NY, NJ). 5 of those teams banked on him and when he scorned 4 of them they had to scrap for who was still out there (i.e. NY took Felton, etc.) if they could even get them (i.e. Cleveland).

The Decision cause people to HATE him, which I believe you are one of those people. I still stand by my comment. Lebron is easily the best overall player in the NBA. He is at the peak of his career. Case in point, just re-watch the 2009 playoff series against Orlando (1.5 year ago). Here are the first game stats: 49 points, 6 boards, 8 assists, 3 blocks, 2 steals. Anyone who watched that series knew he carried that team himself. He was all over the floor, playing himself tired.

This is one of those topics that people love to hate. On another boards, there is a discussion on how Kevin Love isn't considered good because he is on a bad team. This topic seems like it is going that route because Kevin Love is good and people want to bash him.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2011, 08:21 AM
 
2,113 posts, read 2,323,917 times
Reputation: 1762
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
the big O was 6'5" 220 lbs. thats big for a PG but about right for a 2 guard. thats an inch shorter and 20 lbs heavier then manu who is a very good ball handler too.

@ncopus99
you got it all wrong. so because i dont agree with you i HATE lebron? your joking right? lebron is a top 3-5 player in the league. if the NBA broke up today and started over, allowing all the teams to pick a player one at a time till they where full, would lebron go 1st? as a draw MAYBE. now lets say if the teams picked for the sole reason of win it all this year and repick next year, would lebron go 1st? NO WAY! i would not be surprised if he was not picked 10th, or 2nd, or 5th but he would not be 1st.
I guess if you don't think Lebron is the bees knees and the best player in the NBA, you must "hate" him.

His ball handling isn't terribly impressive - he has the highest turnover rate in the NBA for someone who isn't even a point guard.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2011, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,945,259 times
Reputation: 1357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy_Jole View Post
I guess if you don't think Lebron is the bees knees and the best player in the NBA, you must "hate" him.

His ball handling isn't terribly impressive - he has the highest turnover rate in the NBA for someone who isn't even a point guard.
He also plays more than any of those point guards, acts like point guard (see any of the Heat games), and has a WAY better Assist/Turnover ratio that all those point guards sitting at 1.95 vs most of those guys aiming around 2.5. The more you have the ball in your hands, the more risk you have at a turnover, especially when you get double teamed.

Steve Nash, Deron Williams, and Derrick Rose are consider great ball handlers and yet they average about the same amount of turnovers as Lebron. Does that make them that bad of ball handlers..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top