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View Poll Results: ???
Yes 11 78.57%
No 3 21.43%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-21-2011, 12:20 AM
 
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I'm of the opinion that the zone defense slowed down the NBA. It watered it down. Some say that Jordan would have had trouble in the 90s if the zone defense was played against him.

Do you agree?
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Old 04-21-2011, 06:48 AM
 
51,974 posts, read 41,815,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
I'm of the opinion that the zone defense slowed down the NBA. It watered it down. Some say that Jordan would have had trouble in the 90s if the zone defense was played against him.

Do you agree?
You haven't mentioned "hand checking" so your question is unanswerable.

If you are asking how they'd do against the current NBA rules allowing zones but banning other things....they'd be more than just fine.

1) I don't understand your watered down comment.
2) Who are "some" saying that he would have trouble vs. a zone? Anyone with any credibility? Curious to hear their rationale.

P.S. If you allowed zones like today mixed with all the hand checking and other stuff they USED to allow back then.....NBA scoring would be wayyyyy down and everyone would have trouble with that. Small slashers would be hurt the most.
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Old 04-21-2011, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Earth
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The key to effectively attacking a zone is to have a good jumpshot, for one thing. Prime Jordan was an excellent mid-range shooter, so I don't see where he'd have issues with a zone. Plus, there's an excellent youtube video showcasing how Jordan did in fact face zones, even though they were 'illegal'. The best defensive teams were simply smart in the way they executed it.

While zones are in fact legal today, they aren't employed consistently because the best players know how to overcome them. It really depends on both the personnel using the zone, and the personnel for which the zone is being used against. If you figure that a guy like D.Wade is a dominant shooting guard in this era, you can extrapolate that to figure how Jordan would fare. Jordan is bigger, stronger, finishes better at the rim, and a better outside shooter than Wade.
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,365,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post

While zones are in fact legal today, they aren't employed consistently because the best players know how to overcome them.
Yeah, and I think this says a lot. You rarely see zone in the NBA even though the rules allow it now - the reason for that is a good team can cut up a zone. The bulls had good shooters, and good slashers- that combination is lethal vs a zone.
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Old 04-21-2011, 07:14 AM
 
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Yes b/c the Lakers won against Zone D running the same offense. Bulls would have won 8 in a row if Jordan didn't retire in his Prime and who knows maybe 9 if there wasn't a lockout.

I don't think people realize how good the Bulls really were, the chemistry and the fact everyone knew their roles. Bulls always had great outside shooting options (Tucker, BJ, Paxson, Kerr, etc)
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Old 04-21-2011, 10:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by RandyWatson13 View Post
Yes b/c the Lakers won against Zone D running the same offense. Bulls would have won 8 in a row if Jordan didn't retire in his Prime and who knows maybe 9 if there wasn't a lockout.

I don't think people realize how good the Bulls really were, the chemistry and the fact everyone knew their roles. Bulls always had great outside shooting options (Tucker, BJ, Paxson, Kerr, etc)
Good point....and the ridiculous notion of having so much talent that Toni Kukoc is your 6th man.

I know that people hated the Bulls management and don't want to give them any credit but after they got Jordan.....

They made major manuevers in the draft to get both Pippen and Grant.

They got Toni Kukoc for a worthless draft pick because the other teams weren't smart enough to draft European. (Reminds me of the way the Celtics poached Bird)

Rodman for Will Purdue.

Ron Harper, Kerr they got for nothing.

They didn't just arm Jordan with the help to win a few championships....they built a powerhouse.
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,365,433 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
(Reminds me of the way the Celtics poached Bird)
I never knew how that went down, just read it on the wiki page. I think a fair comparison is maybe what the T wolves did with Rubio? (Not comparing Rubio and Bird as players just how a team drafted them, even though they didn't play for them the next year). Either way interesting stuff, thanks.
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Old 04-21-2011, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Ro cha cha, NY
3,075 posts, read 4,206,012 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Good point....and the ridiculous notion of having so much talent that Toni Kukoc is your 6th man.

I know that people hated the Bulls management and don't want to give them any credit but after they got Jordan.....

They made major manuevers in the draft to get both Pippen and Grant.

They got Toni Kukoc for a worthless draft pick because the other teams weren't smart enough to draft European. (Reminds me of the way the Celtics poached Bird)

Rodman for Will Purdue.

Ron Harper, Kerr they got for nothing.

They didn't just arm Jordan with the help to win a few championships....they built a powerhouse.
Oh please. Jordan didn't have that much help. Certainly didn't have three or four all-stars like half these teams today. He had Pippen. The centers all of them would have come off the bench today for any team. He had some three point shooters, but what team doesn't? Some of them like Kerr, could barely dribble the ball. He had Rodman, he was an awesome offensive player. He rebounded that's it. Think of the lack of offense they got from him. Will Purdue, that guy wouldn't even be in the NBA today. Jordan basically had himself with Pippen and a bunch of role players. Role players. Kukoc didn't come along til their fourth, fifth and sixth titles. He was a bit over-rated. How did he do without the bulls?

Now lets take Kobe for instance. Won with Shag and a loaded nucleus for three years. They had Karl malone, Gary Peyton, Shag and Kobe and still got ousted by the Detroit (we only have one all star I think in Billups) Pistons. They got crushed by like forty points in that final game.

Let's now look at the Lakers of present with all their talent. You can take out Kobe and replace him with almost any other player at his postion and they can win. They are very long Bynum, Gasol, Odom, etc. They have defense with Artest and their length and they've had and still have great shooters. Why do you think they win more when Kobe shoots less?

Just saying. Put things into perspective. In Jordans prime, he got fouled hard every time he went to the rim. To even suggest that he would have a harder time today when zones are hardly used anyhow is rediculous. In today's NBA Jordan would have averaged 40. You see Kobe had Jordan to copy. At Jordans position, Jordan didn't have anybody to assimilate too. At that time, the league was very center oriented. Only Isiah Thomas ever led a team as a guard, and look who he had on his team...Jordan was one of a kind. Kobe is a wannabe. The bulls would abuse the Lakers today. The defense they put on you was crippling. The lakers of today, let average teams back in. The Bulls wanted to crush any team everytime.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:35 PM
 
51,974 posts, read 41,815,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supermanpansy View Post
Oh please. Jordan didn't have that much help. Certainly didn't have three or four all-stars like half these teams today. He had Pippen. The centers all of them would have come off the bench today for any team. He had some three point shooters, but what team doesn't? Some of them like Kerr, could barely dribble the ball. He had Rodman, he was an awesome offensive player. He rebounded that's it. Think of the lack of offense they got from him. Will Purdue, that guy wouldn't even be in the NBA today. Jordan basically had himself with Pippen and a bunch of role players. Role players. Kukoc didn't come along til their fourth, fifth and sixth titles. He was a bit over-rated. How did he do without the bulls?

Now lets take Kobe for instance. Won with Shag and a loaded nucleus for three years. They had Karl malone, Gary Peyton, Shag and Kobe and still got ousted by the Detroit (we only have one all star I think in Billups) Pistons. They got crushed by like forty points in that final game.

Let's now look at the Lakers of present with all their talent. You can take out Kobe and replace him with almost any other player at his postion and they can win. They are very long Bynum, Gasol, Odom, etc. They have defense with Artest and their length and they've had and still have great shooters. Why do you think they win more when Kobe shoots less?

Just saying. Put things into perspective. In Jordans prime, he got fouled hard every time he went to the rim. To even suggest that he would have a harder time today when zones are hardly used anyhow is rediculous. In today's NBA Jordan would have averaged 40. You see Kobe had Jordan to copy. At Jordans position, Jordan didn't have anybody to assimilate too. At that time, the league was very center oriented. Only Isiah Thomas ever led a team as a guard, and look who he had on his team...Jordan was one of a kind. Kobe is a wannabe. The bulls would abuse the Lakers today. The defense they put on you was crippling. The lakers of today, let average teams back in. The Bulls wanted to crush any team everytime.
That was truly a bizarre rant. It's as if you didn't even read the thread or my comments but instead responded to posts I made in perhaps another dimension?

It's like I said 1 + 1 is 2 and you are screaming "NO! It's 2!" Seriously, wth.

Go away reader rabbit.
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:17 PM
FBJ
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
39,615 posts, read 50,320,986 times
Reputation: 9451
Quote:
Originally Posted by supermanpansy View Post
Oh please. Jordan didn't have that much help. Certainly didn't have three or four all-stars like half these teams today. He had Pippen. The centers all of them would have come off the bench today for any team. He had some three point shooters, but what team doesn't? Some of them like Kerr, could barely dribble the ball. He had Rodman, he was an awesome offensive player. He rebounded that's it. Think of the lack of offense they got from him. Will Purdue, that guy wouldn't even be in the NBA today. Jordan basically had himself with Pippen and a bunch of role players. Role players. Kukoc didn't come along til their fourth, fifth and sixth titles. He was a bit over-rated. How did he do without the bulls?

Now lets take Kobe for instance. Won with Shag and a loaded nucleus for three years. They had Karl malone, Gary Peyton, Shag and Kobe and still got ousted by the Detroit (we only have one all star I think in Billups) Pistons. They got crushed by like forty points in that final game.

Let's now look at the Lakers of present with all their talent. You can take out Kobe and replace him with almost any other player at his postion and they can win. They are very long Bynum, Gasol, Odom, etc. They have defense with Artest and their length and they've had and still have great shooters. Why do you think they win more when Kobe shoots less?

Just saying. Put things into perspective. In Jordans prime, he got fouled hard every time he went to the rim. To even suggest that he would have a harder time today when zones are hardly used anyhow is rediculous. In today's NBA Jordan would have averaged 40. You see Kobe had Jordan to copy. At Jordans position, Jordan didn't have anybody to assimilate too. At that time, the league was very center oriented. Only Isiah Thomas ever led a team as a guard, and look who he had on his team...Jordan was one of a kind. Kobe is a wannabe. The bulls would abuse the Lakers today. The defense they put on you was crippling. The lakers of today, let average teams back in. The Bulls wanted to crush any team everytime.

People used to say Jordan copied Dr. J but I find that hard to believe.
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