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View Poll Results: Lakers or Mavs
Lakers 9 60.00%
Mavs 6 40.00%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-04-2011, 02:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
The Spurs used Bruce Bowen often to defend Dirk. Not because of his size( obviously he was undersized) but because he had the ability to 1) stay in front of him which many Power forwards can't and 2)was able to muscle him away from the basket. Dirk is a 7 foot jumpshooter; Artest can muscle him out of the paint and at least force him to shoot from outside all game long. It's a bit of 'pick your poison' with Dirk, admittedly. I recall several years ago( maybe around 2004-2005) Tmac guarded Dirk for stretches in the playoffs and had some success. I think this lends a bit of credence to the theory that Dirk is better defended with smaller, quicker defenders in the 6'8-6'10 range, than expecting a 6'11 260 lb power forward to chase him around the perimeter.



Dirk isn't a 'bad' defender; not anymore. I would say yes, Dirk could probably guard Gasol better than vice versa, but neither really has a hope of really guarding the other when they're in their comfort zones.
I agree with all of this but I think that Artest at this stage of his career will struggle in that role and that Dirk has rounded out his game to deal with such defensive schemes.
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I think that Artest at this stage of his career will struggle in that role
Not necessarily; Artest isn't any 'slower-footed' than Dirk is, and he certainly has the strength to keep from getting posted deep. It's a tough cover regardless, Dirk is one of the more unique talents in NBA history in terms of his size and offensive game.I would agree that Dirk's game has probably evolved somewhat to make that kind of defensive tactic less successful than before, but I think it would be more effective than having Pau guard him. As far as the Lakers go, they can ill afford to have Pau get gassed chasing Dirk around( or get in foul trouble), his offense is far more critical to the Lakers success than what Ron provides at this stage in his career. So it probably makes more sense to make Ron the 'sacrificial lamb', so to speak
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Not necessarily; Artest isn't any 'slower-footed' than Dirk is, and he certainly has the strength to keep from getting posted deep. It's a tough cover regardless, Dirk is one of the more unique talents in NBA history in terms of his size and offensive game.I would agree that Dirk's game has probably evolved somewhat to make that kind of defensive tactic less successful than before, but I think it would be more effective than having Pau guard him. As far as the Lakers go, they can ill afford to have Pau get gassed chasing Dirk around( or get in foul trouble), his offense is far more critical to the Lakers success than what Ron provides at this stage in his career. So it probably makes more sense to make Ron the 'sacrificial lamb', so to speak
The issue isn't Artest being slover than Dirk or faster than Dirk in terms of foot speed. The issue is Artest gives up at least 4 inches in height. For a shooter like Dirk a guy like Artest is easy pickings in terms of getting off his shot. If Dirks game was primarily a low post player then Artest's strength would come more into play. But Dirk is a threat from 30 feet on in. Not only can Dirk shot over Artest he could take him off the dribble too.

Gasol is going to have to step up his defense and guard Dirk. The next viable alternative would be Lamar Odom who has the length and quickness to give Dirk problems.
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
The issue isn't Artest being slover than Dirk or faster than Dirk in terms of foot speed. The issue is Artest gives up at least 4 inches in height. For a shooter like Dirk a guy like Artest is easy pickings in terms of getting off his shot. If Dirks game was primarily a low post player then Artest's strength would come more into play. But Dirk is a threat from 30 feet on in. Not only can Dirk shot over Artest he could take him off the dribble too.
As I mentioned in a prior post, smaller defenders like a Bruce Bowen have had more 'success' defending Dirk than your average power forward. Yes, I get that Dirk can shoot right over the top, but the point is to simply avoid having Dirk post him deep( which Artest can do) and being able to keep up with him on the perimeter( again, Artest can do this but the average Power forward can't, Gasol included).

It really is a pick your poison scenario, but the last thing the Lakers want is Gasol having to chase Dirk around the perimeter, which pulls Pau from the basket. Great for the Mavs, not so great for the Lakers. Hence why I suggested Artest on Dirk, it's not necessarily because Artest would do much better defending him, but because the Lakers can ill afford to have Gasol 1) drawn from the basket chasing Dirk around and 2) getting Gasol into foul trouble. Gasol is far more crucial to the Lakers offensive attack( anything Artest gives you offensively is a bonus at this stage),';kl=-p= and they'll need strong offense from him to avoid ( you guessed it) Kobe having to carry too big a load offensively. The Lakers are far more dangerous when the scoring is more evenly distributed, than having Kobe shoot 29 times, while Gasol, Bynum and Odom shoot 28 times combined( as is the case in Game 1).

The reality is, Dirk's a tough matchup for the Lakers( and for just about every other team in the league).
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Old 05-04-2011, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
The issue isn't Artest being slover than Dirk or faster than Dirk in terms of foot speed. The issue is Artest gives up at least 4 inches in height. For a shooter like Dirk a guy like Artest is easy pickings in terms of getting off his shot. If Dirks game was primarily a low post player then Artest's strength would come more into play. But Dirk is a threat from 30 feet on in. Not only can Dirk shot over Artest he could take him off the dribble too.
As I mentioned in a prior post, smaller defenders like a Bruce Bowen have had more 'success' defending Dirk than your average power forward. Yes, I get that Dirk can shoot right over the top, but the point is to simply avoid having Dirk post him deep( which Artest can do) and being able to keep up with him on the perimeter( again, Artest can do this but the average Power forward can't, Gasol included).

It really is a pick your poison scenario, but the last thing the Lakers want is Gasol having to chase Dirk around the perimeter, which pulls Pau from the basket. Great for the Mavs, not so great for the Lakers. Hence why I suggested Artest on Dirk, it's not necessarily because Artest would do much better defending him, but because the Lakers can ill afford to have Gasol 1) drawn from the basket chasing Dirk around and 2) getting Gasol into foul trouble. Gasol is too important in the Lakers offensive attack( anything Artest gives you offensively is a bonus right now) to have him expend so much energy trying to keep up with Dirk, and thus puts more pressure on Kobe to score huge. The Lakers are much better when the offense is more balanced than Game 1's effort: Kobe 29 shots.... Gasol, Bynum, and Odom 28 shots COMBINED.

The reality is, Dirk's a tough matchup for the Lakers( and for just about every other team in the league).



Edit: ironically I JUST looked on NBA.com and saw this story:


Defending Dirk: Lakers consider a one-on-one dream match
Posted May 4 2011 9:35AM
LOS ANGELES -- The topic first came up Monday evening, before Game 1, with the news that Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom would guard Dirk Nowitzki in a straight matchup of power forwards. The fledgling idea regained momentum Tuesday afternoon, following the Lakers' practice, until finally there was a bottom line from coach Phil Jackson.
Is it a possibility that Ron Artest will be moved to defend Dirk Nowitzki?


"Yes it is," Jackson replied.
This is where it gets good. It already was, the way the Mavericks regrouped to come from 16 points down in the third quarter to win the opener of the Western Conference semifinals on the road Monday. But now we're staring at the possibility of really good: Artest, knowing the Lakers' hopes for a threepeat may rest on his ability to contain Nowitzki, giving up about five inches in a showdown between one of the most-respected defenders in the league against one of the most-dangerous scorers.
"Dirk can play," Artest said. "But I'm definitely a better defender than guys on other teams that guard him. I would say I'm a better defender. I'm not going to say that he can't score, that I can hold him to zero points ... I mean, he hits jumpers over 7-footers anyway. But there's other things I could do to make that work in my advantage."
Artest has not been given any indication whether to bring a step ladder Wednesday night for Game 2 of the best-of-seven series at Staples Center. But Jackson said he hasn't made any decisions on countermoves in response to the Mavericks shooting 56.8 percent in the second half Monday to turn a 60-44 deficit a little more than a minute into the second half into a 96-94 victory. Nowitzki had 28 points, 11 in the fourth quarter, along with 14 rebounds.
The day after saying he planned to rely on Gasol and Odom, though, Jackson clearly seemed more open to the idea of small forward Artest getting heavy minutes in the matchup.



Maybe the shift comes in short bursts in hopes different looks will keep Nowitzki off balance, the way Kobe Bryant took smaller Chris Paul at the start of Game 2 in the first round after Paul out on a point-guard clinic in Game 1 of that series. Artest could switch back and forth between Nowitzki and Shawn Marion or Peja Stojakovic at small forward. Or the 6-foot-7 Artest could spend most of the night on 7-footer Nowitzki. Or the Lakers could stick with the Monday plan and rely mostly on power forwards Gasol and Odom.
"I've seen him guarded with shorter guys -- 6-5, 6-6, aggressive, quick, defensive players," Jackson said when the option was raised before Game 1. "I think they've probably been as effective as anybody. But I think that if you overcompensate for Dirk, you're going to end up allowing other people to get involved that can also spark this team."
Artest, twice voted first-team All-Defense by coaches and twice named to second-team, has had previous spot duty on Nowitzki, with the Lakers and in previous stops. Jackson undoubtedly knows Nowitzki scored less against Los Angeles compared to the rest of the league (22 vs. 23.1) and shot worse in the three regular-season meetings (46.3 percent vs. 52 percent against the 29 other opponents).
"I've practically seen it all in this league," Nowitzki said. "It is my 13th year. Teams have guarded me with smaller and they've guarded me with bigger. They've double-teamed me, from baseline, from top. I've got to be ready for everything. Sometimes I've got to go quick and not even wait on the double team. It's whatever. I can adjust. The good thing is, we've got a lot of shooters on the team that can spread the floor for me."
It's just that Nowitzki hasn't seen it in the conference semifinals against the two-time defending champions playing at home and trying to avoid going down 0-2 just before the series shifts to Dallas. This is where it gets good.

Last edited by Roman77; 05-04-2011 at 03:58 PM..
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Old 05-04-2011, 05:10 PM
 
Location: So California
8,548 posts, read 8,886,279 times
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Should be great to see. Im predicting either, a close Mavs win or a blowout Laker win, it hinges on the defense. I think this years Dirk is better than the past, he's more patient with defenders and has a huge arsenal of shots. Marion used to be one of those smaller defenders when he was with the Suns.
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Old 05-04-2011, 06:42 PM
FBJ
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
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Even if the Lakers win tonight I think the Mavs are capable of winning 2 at home which is why that Game 1 loss was so big. The Lakers are not dealing with the Honets this is an entire team with mutiple stars. I think it was important for the Lakers to win BOTH games at home because the Mavs are much beter
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Old 05-04-2011, 10:42 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Dallas looking like the better team so far......
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:12 PM
 
Location: The 719
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Kobe!

not.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:19 PM
JJG
 
Location: Fort Worth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shysister View Post
Now we're in the 2nd round so lets focus more on the match ups per round.

Lakers VS Mavs


This should be a easy win for the Lakers
In the words of any young, black male in the DFW area.....

"I thought this was gonna be easy, bro?"
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