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Old 05-13-2011, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,882,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
ehhh doc won coach of the year on a team that won 4 more games then the season before the lock out 1999 season (it was in 2000 not 2001). i dont remember the circumstances of how/why he won it but his record shows he isnt that good. outside of the stacked team he has had the last 4 years in boston, he has a losing record, and not close to 500 losing record.

as for the 4 names on the top of the list, pat riley i would say his best days where before adelman started or right in the early going. he won a title with wade, shaq and the refs after firing a coach who could have done the same thing IMO. rick is a top coach, surely better then brian shaw. any team who would take shaw over him would be foolish.
Doc coached a marginally talented Magic team, so quoting team records means little if you're trying to compare him to Adelman. He had a team with Mcgrady and scrubs. Adelman coached two of the most talented teams in the past 20 years, the early 90s Trailblazers and the early 2000 Kings so it's little wonder he's got a bunch of 50 win seasons under his belt. Even if you want to keep harping on how he compares to Doc, I rank Phil, Popovich, Riley, Daley, Tomjanoivich, Sloan, Lenny Wilkens, Don Nelson above him. So he's still not in the top 5 coaches in my opinion. Then you got guys like Jeff Van Gundy, who are probably about the same level. Hell Mike Fratello's a good coach too. I can agree he's probably a top 10 coach, I think it's a stretch to put him top 5.

It's really pissing up a tree at the end of the day, isn't it? Most of the people who we consider the 'best coaches' also have had the best players to make them look even better, so who's to say who's really the best coach? All this going back and forth over this particular issue really isn't worth the effort. So we'll agree to disagree....
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:06 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,202,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post

It's really pissing up a tree at the end of the day, isn't it? Most of the people who we consider the 'best coaches' also have had the best players to make them look even better, so who's to say who's really the best coach? All this going back and forth over this particular issue really isn't worth the effort. So we'll agree to disagree....
this is a huge part of the reason i consider adelman to be such a good coach, he has taken marginal talent and pushed it to its limits. i mean a rockets team with questionable at best talent taking the lakers the way they did, this year with mediocre talent and huge injuries/trades and yet his team was 4 games over 500 in the toughest division in the league. i mean the kings where not exactly stacked with the top talent. bibby and webber where nice but top talent? ehhh not so much.

i think rick adelman is a top coach for the simple fact that the guy takes talent, and takes his players strengths and works to them. he can take a defensive guy and make him look good, and he can make an offensive guy and make him look good, and he can make them both look good on the same team.

as usual we will agree to disagree.

i still say he is top level talent as a coach, and he is leaps and bounds better then shaw!
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:17 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
i mean the kings where not exactly stacked with the top talent. bibby and webber where nice but top talent? ehhh not so much.
Webber, Bibby, Peja, Christie, Bobby Jackson, Doug Christie, Turkalo is a a talented team. You don't win 60 games in the Western Conference in the early 2000's, or take the Lakers to the limit with Shaq and Kobe( and arguably should have won if not for blatantly biased officiating) if you're a marginally talented team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post

i think rick adelman is a top coach for the simple fact that the guy takes talent, and takes his players strengths and works to them. he can take a defensive guy and make him look good, and he can make an offensive guy and make him look good, and he can make them both look good on the same team.

as usual we will agree to disagree.
I haven't made an argument that he isn't a top coach. I said he's in the top 10 in my book, which isn't faint praise if you consider the sheer number of coaches in the last 20 years( which is the time parameters you set). Top 5 is a bit more of a stretch in my book. That's my opinion, you have yours. It doesn't need further belaboring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post

he is leaps and bounds better then shaw!
But who's to say Shaw's not a better fit for the Lakers? He knows the system, he knows the players, and most importantly he has Kobe's endorsement, which may be the most important qualification a prospective Lakers coach needs at this point. And who's to say Shaw isn't a good coach on his own merits?
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Old 05-20-2011, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Syracuse, New York
3,114 posts, read 2,527,355 times
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Jerry West just became part of Golden State's organization. I sense a Stephen Curry for Shannon Brown deal brewing!
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:21 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 17,456,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorRob305 View Post
I have a feeling they will go after Dwight Howard for Gasol and Bynum
They will attempt to do this but it won't help them. Gasol was the reason they won two championships. He added that extra dimension of a big man who can do it all. Gasol could run the floor, shoot the outside jumper, and rotates well on defense. He has a high basketball IQ. Howard reminds me of Shaq without the girth and power. I think it's over for the Lakers. The Kobe era is done. I think they will be competitive but a lot of their clutch play is gone. Kobe has lost a step. Fisher has really lost a step. Artest is gone.

I do think Orlando will trade Howard for Gasol and Bynum. I think the Lakers will offer Odom and Bynum but the Magic will demand Gasol.

The sad thing is they are a great team but they weren't focused and there were too many distractions and infighting. It reminds me of the 2004 Lakers team that lost to the Pistons. Mentally, they are just done.
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:25 PM
 
10,720 posts, read 17,456,108 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
,,....,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,e isn't a top coach. I said he's in the top 10 in my book, which isn't faint praise if you consider the sheer number of coaches in the last 20 years( which is the time parameters you set). Top 5 is a bit more of a stretch in my book. That's my opinion, you have yours. It doesn't need further belaboring. But who's to say Shaw's not a better fit for the Lakers? He knows the system, he knows the players, and most importantly he has Kobe's endorsement, which may be the most important qualification a prospective Lakers coach needs at this point. And who's to say Shaw isn't a good coach on his own merits?
Neither Adelman or Shaw will work. Rudy T. won 2 championships with the Lakers and he couldn't coach that team. The problem with coaches like Adelman is that they are very good X's and O's coaches and it's hard for coaches like that to get stars to adopt a new system.

Shaw knows the system but he has no credibility. He hasn't done anything. And stars will have a hard time taking him seriously.

The only type of coach who could function in this situation is another superstar. Duke's Coach K or someone on that level is the only one that Kobe and the rest would respect and listen to.
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:50 PM
 
51,993 posts, read 41,835,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Neither Adelman or Shaw will work. Rudy T. won 2 championships with the Lakers and he couldn't coach that team. The problem with coaches like Adelman is that they are very good X's and O's coaches and it's hard for coaches like that to get stars to adopt a new system.

Shaw knows the system but he has no credibility. He hasn't done anything. And stars will have a hard time taking him seriously.

The only type of coach who could function in this situation is another superstar. Duke's Coach K or someone on that level is the only one that Kobe and the rest would respect and listen to.
How do you jive your hypothesis with Kobe endorsing Shaw?
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Old 05-20-2011, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,882,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Neither Adelman or Shaw will work. Rudy T. won 2 championships with the Lakers and he couldn't coach that team. The problem with coaches like Adelman is that they are very good X's and O's coaches and it's hard for coaches like that to get stars to adopt a new system.

Shaw knows the system but he has no credibility. He hasn't done anything. And stars will have a hard time taking him seriously.

The only type of coach who could function in this situation is another superstar. Duke's Coach K or someone on that level is the only one that Kobe and the rest would respect and listen to.
Alot of assumptions about Shaw's ability without knowing exactly what he brings to the table, but I'll say this: Kobe isn't going to endorse the guy if he doesn't think he's capable. Make of that what you will...

Finally, I'm assuming you meant Rudy won two championships with the Rockets, not the Lakers.
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Old 05-20-2011, 05:10 PM
JL
 
7,355 posts, read 11,890,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
They will attempt to do this but it won't help them. Gasol was the reason they won two championships. He added that extra dimension of a big man who can do it all. Gasol could run the floor, shoot the outside jumper, and rotates well on defense. He has a high basketball IQ. Howard reminds me of Shaq without the girth and power. I think it's over for the Lakers. The Kobe era is done. I think they will be competitive but a lot of their clutch play is gone. Kobe has lost a step. Fisher has really lost a step. Artest is gone.

I do think Orlando will trade Howard for Gasol and Bynum. I think the Lakers will offer Odom and Bynum but the Magic will demand Gasol.

The sad thing is they are a great team but they weren't focused and there were too many distractions and infighting. It reminds me of the 2004 Lakers team that lost to the Pistons. Mentally, they are just done.
I agree the Lakers are done. Trading Gasol and Bynum for Howard won't be much of an improvement. They will be competitive, but can't see them winning a title. If anything, they probably need a very good pt. guard than center. The Lakers lost because they were just too slow and not athletic enough ....not because of any distraction. The Lakers had the distinct size advantage over the past 2 yrs with interior scoring, but once that was negated, they were just another good playoff team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SyraBrian View Post
Jerry West just became part of Golden State's organization. I sense a Stephen Curry for Shannon Brown deal brewing!
lol....at least the Grizz got Marc Gasol out of it...
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Old 05-21-2011, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
3,441 posts, read 5,005,754 times
Reputation: 2222
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Neither Adelman or Shaw will work. Rudy T. won 2 championships with the Lakers and he couldn't coach that team. The problem with coaches like Adelman is that they are very good X's and O's coaches and it's hard for coaches like that to get stars to adopt a new system.

Shaw knows the system but he has no credibility. He hasn't done anything. And stars will have a hard time taking him seriously.

The only type of coach who could function in this situation is another superstar. Duke's Coach K or someone on that level is the only one that Kobe and the rest would respect and listen to.
Adelman went to 2 NBA Finals in 3 seasons. He is one of the few coaches who lets the players play their own game. He's more than an X's and O's coach.

Give Adelman true talent and he'll have no problem getting a team to the Finals. Whether he wins the Finals, that's up for debate.
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