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Old 05-14-2011, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,366,736 times
Reputation: 3070

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Quote:
Originally Posted by loloroj View Post
The one who is getting hot and bothered is you, not me. IMO you're flat wrong. And what does the fact that something took place some time ago take away from it relevance. Only if a guy like you can't address it which seems to be the case.

And so what if players haven't come out and said anything about their coaches? Did Wilt or Kareem attribute their championships to their great coaches, or their teammates? Further more, Kobe wanted Shaq out because he couldn't abide the guy, but yet in public you never heard him say anything about how much he hated him. It was the players themselves who basically dictated who would play and how the team would be formed, not Phil boy, which tends to undermine your point as to how important coaches are vis a vis players.

And if you claim that no coach could make Luke Walton a better player, then it also undercuts your claim regarding how important a coach is to a team. If they can't do their job which is to make players better then they aren't very good coaches, because that is part of the job description. And I asked you to name ANY player that PJ has made better. I'm still waiting, calm and coolly.....
I do agree that the coach is far less important than the players when it comes to winning - moreso in basketball then say football. Yes, I could name several players off the bench (and in the starting line up) in the bulls dynasty years that improved their numbers under phil, but the easy counter arguement to that is that it was actually playing WITH Michael that made them better, not UNDER Phil. And I wouldn't have a way to disprove that.

I never said the coach is the most important part of the team, a coach only deserves a slice of the credit pie, and I'm ok giving phil his slice.

As far as things happening in the past taking away from their relevance, that is common sense to me, games change and evolve. Not really sure how that is hard to see.
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Old 05-14-2011, 12:36 PM
 
920 posts, read 1,532,036 times
Reputation: 955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
I do agree that the coach is far less important than the players when it comes to winning - moreso in basketball then say football. Yes, I could name several players off the bench (and in the starting line up) in the bulls dynasty years that improved their numbers under phil, but the easy counter arguement to that is that it was actually playing WITH Michael that made them better, not UNDER Phil. And I wouldn't have a way to disprove that.

I never said the coach is the most important part of the team, a coach only deserves a slice of the credit pie, and I'm ok giving phil his slice.

As far as things happening in the past taking away from their relevance, that is common sense to me, games change and evolve. Not really sure how that is hard to see.
Not really sure how you don't realize that it isn't the game that has changed its the players that may have. But the only way to know that is to compare today's players with yesterday's, which is the point. Since you were the one that brought up MJ, he played at the same time as did Kareem. So while you were trying to disparage my point re: Wilt by writing something about the Beav, it seems you didn't have an idea of the overlap of some of the player's eras.

Players/the game is all about competition, and effort and maximizing ability to its highest level. Coach's jobs are about developing that ability to its highest levels. Nothing has changed and all coaches of whatever era are judged by how well they do that. The coach that does that best is the one that has less talent, less resources, and yet puts out high quality competitive teams who optimize what they have. PJ always had the best so what was there to develop. Point being is that when he had lesser players he didn't do much to elevate their ability. Compare that with Tarkanian who didn't have optimal talent at Long Beach State but yet got them to the 2A's. That is what good coaching is about.....
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:49 PM
 
51,995 posts, read 41,835,728 times
Reputation: 32441
Quote:
Originally Posted by loloroj View Post
Having lived in L.A., it was always pretty well known that Phil was as craven and materialistic as anyone else in the league. As I wrote earlier, if you were what Phil was made out to be, you wouldn't care a thing about idiotic things re: wining/losing bball games, you could care less about money, you wouldn't be a coach because you would know that in the big scheme of life, you would already know how meaningless it all was. He's driven by all the same things as any other "non enlightened" coach. The thing is that in parts of SoCal that bull**** plays well...
WTH does this have to do with coaching? All I'm hearing is a bunch of whining about how you just don't like PJ, which is fine but this is a pretty ****-poor argument.
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:43 PM
 
920 posts, read 1,532,036 times
Reputation: 955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
WTH does this have to do with coaching? All I'm hearing is a bunch of whining about how you just don't like PJ, which is fine but this is a pretty ****-poor argument.
Uh, it has less to do with coaching and much more to do with PJ and the image of him being a great coach. Part of that image was what was promoted re: his philosophy of life, which was claimed to be a major part of his coaching strategy. Having lived in L.A. and endured that constant appeal to his Zen/Buddha thinking made him a better coach than others, rather than his having Shaq/Kobe, it makes sense to show that how he actually lived revealed he didn't buy into it either. (edit). Let's not get too personal here.

Last edited by DOUBLE H; 05-18-2011 at 10:50 AM..
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Old 05-20-2011, 08:28 AM
 
2,057 posts, read 3,156,428 times
Reputation: 980
I'm surprised that the possibility of going to Miami hasn't been brought up.

Last edited by shoe01; 05-20-2011 at 08:37 AM..
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:54 AM
eek
 
Location: Queens, NY
3,576 posts, read 6,658,632 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Despite all that, he is probably the only coach in the league that could get the Knicks current personnel to play defense. His strength is working with superstars and difficult talents in order to produce champions. Doesn't make him the best coach, just one of the best for certain situations.
lol. any coach other than d'antoni would get the knicks to play d.

i don't know why the media and non knicks fans think of the knicks as some team that isn't capable of playing d. like the knicks never played d ever.
like the d during the playoffs wasn't pretty decent.

without ref assist, we would have won at least two of those games. without amare's injury that he caused himself, who knows. with a healthy billups that wasn't taken out with a foul that wasn't called, who knows.

remember:


YouTube - ‪90's Knicks "Thug" Edition‬‏

i'm, no WE'RE begging God for a defensive minded team. a HARD team. enough of this soft CRAP.
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Old 05-26-2011, 08:09 AM
eek
 
Location: Queens, NY
3,576 posts, read 6,658,632 times
Reputation: 1423
while we definitely need a new coach we need a big...we need a decent pg who isn't past his prime or old or injury prone. etc.

i just want us to not be to laughing stock of the league and part of whats wrong with ny.
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Old 05-26-2011, 08:38 AM
 
880 posts, read 1,756,036 times
Reputation: 624
The next Knicks coach will be a Jackson but his first name is MARK.
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