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Old 05-10-2011, 07:54 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,195,031 times
Reputation: 1982

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ok so i have never been sold on PJ. sure he has to many rings or what ever but all of his rings come with a little * next to them that says he has had the greatest players of their eras to coach. then there is the argument "but he had to manage those egos", to which i say other coaches do that just as well, IE boston celtics with pierce, kg, allen season 1.

well there is a rumor floating that PJ could likely end up in NYC coaching the knicks in the 2012-2013 season. i find this highly unlikely personally.

all that said, if PJ can turn that bunch of knuckleheaded, no defense playing band of goofballs (im looking at you melo, im looking at you black jesus) into nba champs i will surely be sold as PJ is the greatest coach in the history of coaching, not just the nba.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:52 AM
 
1,742 posts, read 4,999,429 times
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It will never happen and unfortunately he did not get to have 6 with another team and win in his last year.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,745,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
ok so i have never been sold on PJ. sure he has to many rings or what ever but all of his rings come with a little * next to them that says he has had the greatest players of their eras to coach. then there is the argument "but he had to manage those egos", to which i say other coaches do that just as well, IE boston celtics with pierce, kg, allen season 1.

I will preface this by saying that I dont really follow the NBA. However, I do follow sports as a whole and study the history and progression of sports.

Putting an asterisk by the accomplishments of a coach because he had star players is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. How many teams full of super star players in all sports completely fail? Super stars do not always equal winning. It takes a leader and manager to properly find the tactics, schemes, locker room policies and everything else to build a winning team. This is done by the coach.

The teams with the best players arent the best teams. The best teams are the best teams and the best teams become the best teams because of their coaching staff leading the way. Yes, I know that is hard to read but it is a true statement.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:16 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,195,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
I will preface this by saying that I dont really follow the NBA. However, I do follow sports as a whole and study the history and progression of sports.

Putting an asterisk by the accomplishments of a coach because he had star players is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read. How many teams full of super star players in all sports completely fail? Super stars do not always equal winning. It takes a leader and manager to properly find the tactics, schemes, locker room policies and everything else to build a winning team. This is done by the coach.

The teams with the best players arent the best teams. The best teams are the best teams and the best teams become the best teams because of their coaching staff leading the way. Yes, I know that is hard to read but it is a true statement.
sorry but i dont agree, phil jackson didnt just have superstars, he had 3 of the greatest players in the history of the game. putting together a team of stars doesnt always work, but then in basketball where the teams are small compared to other sports, having 1,2,3 of the best players of an era all on the same team doesnt take a rocket scientist to manage. the miami heat have a very real chance to win a title this year, and not a single person in the history of sports would give their coach even the slightest nod of being a great coach. he got lucky and his management brought in 2 great/above average players to join his great player. 2 great players and one well above average player can very realistically mean title.

lets put it this way, take PJ off the 90's bulls teams and put in doc rivers, or hell eric spostra (sp?) and would MJ not still win 6 titles? he surely would because he was/is the greatest player in the history of the league.
was it red who won all the rings for bill russell or was it the other way around? if it was red then explain the player coach rings bill got. some coaches manage personalities, some players just lead the way. some coaches are just along for the ride (im looking at you miami) and some coaches actually coach (im looking at you san antonio). sure pop had the greatest power forward ever, would he have the rings without tim duncan? NOPE, would tim duncan have rings without pop, more then likely.

i stand by my statement, PJ gets an "*" by all his rings until he does it without the top player in the game.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:29 AM
 
51,904 posts, read 41,783,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
sorry but i dont agree, phil jackson didnt just have superstars, he had 3 of the greatest players in the history of the game. putting together a team of stars doesnt always work, but then in basketball where the teams are small compared to other sports, having 1,2,3 of the best players of an era all on the same team doesnt take a rocket scientist to manage. the miami heat have a very real chance to win a title this year, and not a single person in the history of sports would give their coach even the slightest nod of being a great coach. he got lucky and his management brought in 2 great/above average players to join his great player. 2 great players and one well above average player can very realistically mean title.

lets put it this way, take PJ off the 90's bulls teams and put in doc rivers, or hell eric spostra (sp?) and would MJ not still win 6 titles? he surely would because he was/is the greatest player in the history of the league.
was it red who won all the rings for bill russell or was it the other way around? if it was red then explain the player coach rings bill got. some coaches manage personalities, some players just lead the way. some coaches are just along for the ride (im looking at you miami) and some coaches actually coach (im looking at you san antonio). sure pop had the greatest power forward ever, would he have the rings without tim duncan? NOPE, would tim duncan have rings without pop, more then likely.

i stand by my statement, PJ gets an "*" by all his rings until he does it without the top player in the game.
Despite all that, he is probably the only coach in the league that could get the Knicks current personnel to play defense. His strength is working with superstars and difficult talents in order to produce champions. Doesn't make him the best coach, just one of the best for certain situations.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:16 PM
 
10,963 posts, read 8,051,483 times
Reputation: 3119
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
ok so i have never been sold on PJ. sure he has to many rings or what ever but all of his rings come with a little * next to them that says he has had the greatest players of their eras to coach. then there is the argument "but he had to manage those egos", to which i say other coaches do that just as well, IE boston celtics with pierce, kg, allen season 1.

well there is a rumor floating that PJ could likely end up in NYC coaching the knicks in the 2012-2013 season. i find this highly unlikely personally.

all that said, if PJ can turn that bunch of knuckleheaded, no defense playing band of goofballs (im looking at you melo, im looking at you black jesus) into nba champs i will surely be sold as PJ is the greatest coach in the history of coaching, not just the nba.
Put down the crack pipe!

PLEASE!

The current iteration of the Knicks is dysfunctional as hell. Carmelo and Amare are OFFENSIVE players that I seriously doubt will ever make a serious enough committment to the defensive end of the floor to be a championship contender. The Knicks are basically a "Show Pony" team. They will bedazzle their fans with their offensive capabilities and make it to the playoffs then lose to teams with more leadership, character and better defense.

New York fans hungry for a somewhat decent basketball team will be fine with this for about 2 or 3 years.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:22 PM
 
10,963 posts, read 8,051,483 times
Reputation: 3119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Despite all that, he is probably the only coach in the league that could get the Knicks current personnel to play defense. His strength is working with superstars and difficult talents in order to produce champions. Doesn't make him the best coach, just one of the best for certain situations.
Actually as defensive coaches I'd rate Doc Rivers and Tom Tibodeau ahead of Phil Jackson at this stage of their respective careers. Rivers is also coaching THREE future hall of famers and continues to get excellent efforts out of them. I'm not a Celtic fan by any stretch of the imagination but damn those guys play with heart.

I seriously have to wonder if Phil Jackson has the passion and drive anymore to be a championship coach. After all when you've done it 11 damn times there is not a whole lot left to prove. He's at the point if he's REALLY not passionate about coaching he won't be successful.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:28 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,195,031 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyTallGuy View Post
Put down the crack pipe!

PLEASE!

The current iteration of the Knicks is dysfunctional as hell. Carmelo and Amare are OFFENSIVE players that I seriously doubt will ever make a serious enough committment to the defensive end of the floor to be a championship contender. The Knicks are basically a "Show Pony" team. They will bedazzle their fans with their offensive capabilities and make it to the playoffs then lose to teams with more leadership, character and better defense.

New York fans hungry for a somewhat decent basketball team will be fine with this for about 2 or 3 years.
this is exactly my point, i am not PJ fan, i think he has that little * by his titles because of who he coached. now if the rumors where to pan out and he went to NYC to coach those guys and even put them in the finals it would change my view of him completely. now obviously he isnt there to please me, and i am in the minority, i just see the light of his rings differently then those who have been blinded by the bling. no MJ, no SHAQ/KOBE, no KOBE/PAU no 11 rings. he might have won one or 2 with other guys, i find it hard to believe though.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:33 PM
 
9,579 posts, read 8,883,212 times
Reputation: 5808
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
sorry but i dont agree, phil jackson didnt just have superstars, he had 3 of the greatest players in the history of the game. putting together a team of stars doesnt always work, but then in basketball where the teams are small compared to other sports, having 1,2,3 of the best players of an era all on the same team doesnt take a rocket scientist to manage. the miami heat have a very real chance to win a title this year, and not a single person in the history of sports would give their coach even the slightest nod of being a great coach. he got lucky and his management brought in 2 great/above average players to join his great player. 2 great players and one well above average player can very realistically mean title.

lets put it this way, take PJ off the 90's bulls teams and put in doc rivers, or hell eric spostra (sp?) and would MJ not still win 6 titles? he surely would because he was/is the greatest player in the history of the league.
was it red who won all the rings for bill russell or was it the other way around? if it was red then explain the player coach rings bill got. some coaches manage personalities, some players just lead the way. some coaches are just along for the ride (im looking at you miami) and some coaches actually coach (im looking at you san antonio). sure pop had the greatest power forward ever, would he have the rings without tim duncan? NOPE, would tim duncan have rings without pop, more then likely.

i stand by my statement, PJ gets an "*" by all his rings until he does it without the top player in the game.
Are you serious? So you are going on assumptions? How about Red Auerbach is a good point... .. How about John Wooden...he got the best players year after year after year. We gonna asterisk them too? Come on.. use your head, so silly.

Coaches are there to keep teams playing at a high level. Its not Jacksons fault he had great players...geez. Granted he had a big advantage over the rest , but they are COACHES ..not players.
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Old 05-10-2011, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Englewood, Near Eastside Indy
8,340 posts, read 14,097,157 times
Reputation: 5958
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
lets put it this way, take PJ off the 90's bulls teams and put in doc rivers, or hell eric spostra (sp?) and would MJ not still win 6 titles? he surely would because he was/is the greatest player in the history of the league.

i stand by my statement, PJ gets an "*" by all his rings until he does it without the top player in the game.
How many NBA titles did Michael Jordan win before Phil Jackson became his coach?
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