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Old 05-29-2011, 11:14 PM
 
199 posts, read 425,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
LOL.... now I know you're trolling. Lebron James is NOT a better, more consistent shooter than Jordan in his prime. Defensively, Jordan is a better ball thief, man to man defender, and no worse as a shotblocker.

Advantage Jordan.
False

Jordan has got to be the most overrated defender of all time. The only thing that stands out to me about Jordan's defense is that he seemed to have this inhumane ability to strip the ball of defenders, its impressive for a guy to get most steals from stripping versus playing passing lanes (especially because he wasn't fouling the guy). His man to man defense and overall effectiveness in rotating to defenders is not on LeBron's level. Jordan should be compared more to Wade defensively than someone like LeBron or Kobe imho, hugely overrated defender who won a DPOY based on popularity instead of actual defensive skill. Im not saying he was a bad defender or anything but hes more of a Wade category versus someone like Bruce Bowen, prime Artest or prime Battier.

Neither LeBron or Jordan are KG's on post defense but Jordan is just plain horrible as a post defender. Everything from the way he angles his body, footwork and steal attempt timing was completely horrible for him while guarding in the post. Luckily he never had to deal against swingmen who can operate in the post. In his first finals appearance against LA he was getting massacred by Magic Johnson when Magic would post him up. When rotations forced Jordan to switch and guard the 4 it was an automatic point for LA. If it weren't for Pippen guarding Magic instead of Jordan, LA would have easily won the championship that year. If you dont believe me watch game 3 of 1991 NBA finals on youtube, Jordan is horrible post defender.

Rebounding there pretty much the same, shot blocking I give the edge to LeBron even though statistically it seems like they are equal. LeBron does not normally rotate to the cup to attempt blocks like Jordan did although in these playoffs he has been doing that and you can tell hes a great shot blocker when he is forced to rotate to a slasher. Lets not even talk about chase down fast break blocks, LeBron is incomparable when it comes to that.

Offensively I give the man all credit he was easily a better scorer than LeBron is. LeBron can still be a streaky shooter at times while Jordan worked on his shot to the point it was consistent. Jordan could also create a shot for himself (not as good as Kobe can imo) but he can pull up off the dribble and fade away at a much much more consistent level than LeBron. Jordans offensive post game was also a thing of beauty, he had the footwork and ability to find a way to spin off or throw some well executed pump fakes to get enough space for a step through. Not to forget his ability to make turn around fade aways in the low post. Even though Jordan did have a 8 assist season, LeBron is still miles ahead a better passer.

The only thing that makes Jordan better than LeBron is that he could score efficiently in more than one way (slashing, post game, shooting) versus LeBron who if you shut down the slashing lanes he will most likely struggle. All LeBron needs to be better than Jordan imho is a solid post game, if he works on expanding his game next season versus playing extremely serious and race for the 1st seed, then he will be extremely dangerous and superior to Jordan.
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Old 05-29-2011, 11:22 PM
 
Location: So California
8,531 posts, read 8,869,462 times
Reputation: 4631
JORDAN (honors, and defense in bold)

Five-time regular season Most Valuable Player, 1987-88, 1990-91, 1991-92, 1995-96, 1997-98.
Won three consecutive NBA Finals MVPs, twice, 1991-93 and 1996-98.
Second player to win seven straight scoring titles, 1986-87 to 1992-93 (Wilt Chamberlain, 1960-66). Also won scoring titles in 1995-96, 1996-97 and 1997-98.
All-NBA first team seven straight years, 1987-93. Also 1996-1998.
All-Defense first team six straight years, 1988-93. Also 1996-1998.
NBA Defensive Player of the Year, 1988.
NBA Rookie of the Year, 1984-85.
NBA Slam Dunk Champion, 1987, 1988.
NBA All-Star Game MVP, 1988, 1996, 1998.
Sporting News College Player of the Year, 1983, 1984.
Sporting News All-America first team, 1983, 1984.



6 NBA titles
2 Gold Medals
1 NCAA Title
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Old 05-29-2011, 11:30 PM
 
Location: So California
8,531 posts, read 8,869,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slo1318 View Post
Ok, Greg you made me do it, for the same first 8 seasons......

Scoring: 32.6 vs 27.7
Rebounds: 6.4 vs 7.1
Assists: 6.04 vs 7.0
shooting%: 52.2 vs 47.9
FT %: 84.6 vs 74.4
Titles: 2 vs 0

Steals 2.8 vs 2.3
Blocks 1.06 vs .8
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Old 05-30-2011, 04:34 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,877,543 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItWasWritten View Post
False

Jordan has got to be the most overrated defender of all time. The only thing that stands out to me about Jordan's defense is that he seemed to have this inhumane ability to strip the ball of defenders, its impressive for a guy to get most steals from stripping versus playing passing lanes (especially because he wasn't fouling the guy). His man to man defense and overall effectiveness in rotating to defenders is not on LeBron's level.

And having an inhuman ability to strip the ball is a valuable defensive asset, right? You didn't actually argue against Jordan being a bad defender here. Jordan was very adept at playing the passing lanes, and Lebron is NOT a great man to man defender. He's not bad, but Lebron doesn't have the lateral quickness that Jordan had to play in your shorts defense. How can you credit the guy with being amazing at stripping the ball, and claim he's overrated??!! Stealing the ball is a MAJOR defensive ability, as big a defensive ability on the perimeter as a great shotblocker would be in the lane. Particularly if you're adept at both stripping the ball, or playing the passing lanes. Hell, one can make the argument that Lebron's penchant for chasedown blocks has made HIM slightly overrated on defense. I'd go as far as to say his own teammate, Wade, is more adept at shotblocking as Wade will challenge people, including centers, directly at the rim. Now, let me clarify that I'm not personally calling him overrated, but those fancy chase blocks doesn't necessarily equate to Lebron being noticeably superior to Jordan on that aspect. Jordan has a few seasons of 1.5 blocks a game, a number that Lebron has yet to reach and until Wade came along, was pretty unheard of from a guard. Shotblocking, between the two, is more or less a wash, or at least no obvious advantage.



Neither LeBron or Jordan are KG's on post defense but Jordan is just plain horrible as a post defender. In his first finals appearance against LA he was getting massacred by Magic Johnson when Magic would post him up. When rotations forced Jordan to switch and guard the 4 it was an automatic point for LA. If it weren't for Pippen guarding Magic instead of Jordan, LA would have easily won the championship that year. If you dont believe me watch game 3 of 1991 NBA finals on youtube, Jordan is horrible post defender.

I never bought up Jordan's ability as a post defender, so why do you raise it here? I'm quite aware of Jordan's inability to guard Magic during the 91 finals in the post, but let's apply some common sense here: Jordan at 6'6 and 198 wouldn't have the ability, from a size POV, to guard magic, at 6'9 220, like 6'8 225 Pippen, who obviously would match Magic size-wise. A mute point really, considering you went to great lengths to talk about his post defense, which was nowhere in my earlier point. As Lebron isn't a great post defender either, I'm not sure what you're going on about in this instance.


The only thing that makes Jordan better than LeBron is that he could score efficiently in more than one way (slashing, post game, shooting) versus LeBron who if you shut down the slashing lanes he will most likely struggle. All LeBron needs to be better than Jordan imho is a solid post game, if he works on expanding his game next season versus playing extremely serious and race for the 1st seed, then he will be extremely dangerous and superior to Jordan.

False.

For Lebron to be better, he's have to develop a GREAT post game, AND a GREAT jumper( neither of which he has right now) to compensate for what appears to be slightly diminishing slashing abilities. It's been stated repeatedly that Lebron doesn't appear quite as explosive or fast as prior years, which has impacted his driving. Which puts even more pressure on him to expand his other offensive abilities.

And I haven't even gone into the mental aspect of the game where Jordan's will to win appears much higher. It's an immeasurable point really, as it's not something that can be backed up with numbers, but anyone who's seen enough of both should logically be able to come to that conclusion.

My answers in bold.

Last edited by Roman77; 05-30-2011 at 04:46 AM..
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
3,391 posts, read 4,238,935 times
Reputation: 2024
Michael Jordan is the best player basketball has ever seen.
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:29 AM
 
778 posts, read 1,459,657 times
Reputation: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzpost View Post
Michael Jordan is the best player basketball has ever seen.
Yes. Big difference between who is the best player EVER and who is the best player today. And though Kobe is the best player in the post Jordan era, Lebron is the best player today. A huge stretch to put LJ anywhere near MJ or even KB quite yet on any all time list..
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Old 05-30-2011, 11:19 AM
JL
 
7,351 posts, read 11,876,045 times
Reputation: 7198
Let's revisit this topic 7-8 yrs from now . We should get a clearer picture of how these 3 will compare amongst each other. Hopefully, i'm still around and CD Data still online.
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Old 05-30-2011, 12:45 PM
 
Location: South Side
3,856 posts, read 9,358,855 times
Reputation: 1640
LeBron was undefeated in college! Cam MJ say that?
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Old 05-30-2011, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,877,543 times
Reputation: 1802
^ Yep.... just as I suspected.

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Old 05-30-2011, 08:41 PM
 
10,963 posts, read 8,048,340 times
Reputation: 3119
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoe01 View Post
Wade has a ring without James. Pippen never did have one without Jordan. Just saying.

However, like TVandSportsGuy said, the jury's still out.
Wade has a ring with the help of Shaq when Shaq was still capable of dominating the paint.

It's not like Dwayne Wade won that champion as the only star of that team.
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