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Old 07-02-2011, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,181,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
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Malone, even at 41, went to the lakers because he thought he had at least a shot at winning a title.

I think it shows that nothing is really guaranteed in the NBA. Even when you've got 4 powerhouse players like that. The celtics would have won some championships with cousy, jones, sharman, heinsohn, but I don't think they would have won as many without Auerbach.

About Bird, I don't think anyone will perfectly replicate his play. But Kobe's challenged him in terms of mental toughness, will to win, passion, "burning desire". You could make the case, he's probably eclipsed him in some areas.

-How would you rank pippen vs bird, in the small forward position? You could make the case that pippen is underrated on these lists. If pippen is, say #14 or 16, what makes Bird 6 places higher (#8)? Who would you take on defense, pippen or bird?

-How would you rank Bird vs Havlicek?

Havlicek 8 titles, all time leading celtics scorer.

-What about Lebron vs Bird?

Lebron at 26, already has 2 mvps. Do you think Bird will have a lock on the small forward position in the future? In 3 or 5 years, he'll be in the same place on a top 10 list? This is why I have my doubts.

Its very possible Lebron ends up with 4 or 5 mvps, 3 or 4 championships, who knows. He's still a young guy, 26.

This is what I said in my original post, I still stick with it,

"The most questionable is probably bird on that list. The top 5-7 are all unique in their skill. Basically the best ever in their particular skill set. Thats why they always show up in the same top 5 or 7 lists. But Birds been replicated. He's not quite as "unique" as the others (not a knock on him, hes still top 11 or 12). I think his name could get moved the most."

Tenacity, will to win - replicated by Kobe.
In terms of best ever forward, technically sound, winning championships - Duncan.
In terms of all around play - maybe eclipsed by Lebron.

I don't see what skills bird had in the #3 spot, that will keep him there for a long time. In 5 or 10 years. I,e. Kobe finishes up his career. Duncan. Lebron could play for another 6-7 years. Thus Bird is the most "movable".

I don't think I've ever heard that Bird is a better all around player than Oscar Robertson.
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Old 07-02-2011, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,881,684 times
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John23, at this point, you're sorta rambling on and on. You more or less conceded above that Bird's combination of skills/play-style/IQ/instincts has yet to be duplicated, which defies your earlier point about him not being that unique. The reality is the top ten list will constantly evolve as time goes on. Duncan and Kobe are recent entries on the list, and suffice to say in 10 years you'll probably see a couple more new names. Hell maybe Durant finds his way on the list.

The thing to keep in mind is all these all-time lists are subjective. There's so many factors to throw into the equation that it's akin to pissing in the wind;it just becomes pointless after a while. Whether you want to rank Bird in the top 10 or the top 100, I don't particularly care one way or the other. You made a point about his uniqueness as a player, in a manner that seemed to seriously underrate and trivialize his contribution to the game. I challenged you on that point alone. Otherwise, I'm not especially interested in the other points you're bringing up at this time because the multiple long posts have become a tad tedious and redundant.

And with all due respect, that you'd even ask who'd I take on defense between Pippen and Bird, seriously raises some flags regarding the extent of your basketball knowledge.

Last edited by Roman77; 07-02-2011 at 10:32 PM..
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Old 07-02-2011, 10:04 PM
JL
 
7,354 posts, read 11,888,807 times
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I really wished people would separate the positions instead. I really think it is kinda strange to compare players in different positions.
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Old 07-08-2011, 12:29 AM
 
Location: So California
8,548 posts, read 8,884,653 times
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ACTIVE PLAYERS CAREER SCORING, ANY OF THEM MAKE YOUR TOP TEN?

1. Shaquille O'Neal 28596 2. Kobe Bryant 27868 3. Kevin Garnett 23323 4. Dirk Nowitzki 22792 5. Ray Allen 22286 6. Tim Duncan 21663 7. Paul Pierce 21410 8. Vince Carter 20520 9. Antawn Jamison 18128 10. Tracy McGrady 18108 11. LeBron James 17362 12. Jason Kidd 16772 13. Grant Hill 16545 14. Jerry Stackhouse 16119 15. Juwan Howard 16096 16. Steve Nash 15877 17. Jason Terry 15537 18. Chauncey Billups 15247 19. Shawn Marion 15151 20. Elton Brand 15065
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