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Old 06-07-2011, 05:37 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,249,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
An interesting perspective. That would look something like this:

PG: Magic, Oscar
SG: Jordan, Kobe
SF: Bird....hmmm....Lebron?
PF: Duncan, Malone
C:Wilt, Kareem

Not a bad list, but I can't see not having Shaq or Hakeem on the top 10 list. Nor does Lebron belong on the top 10 list. Which begs the question, if we consider Bird the best SF ever, is Lebron already number 2?

i agree on PG, SG, and PF. SF is bird and a name i have not seen on any lists here, elgin baylor. i mean the guy had a single season of 38 ppg, 18 rpg, 4.6 apg. he averaged 27.4 ppg, 13.5 rpg, and 4.3 apg. those are some solid numbers for a power forward, but he was a small forward.

and i agree wilt is the best center but i put hakeem and/or russell over kareem i think.

read today that shaq thinks wilt, hakeem, kareem, bill russell and david robinson as his top 5 (excluding himself of course)
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,903,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post

and i agree wilt is the best center but i put hakeem and/or russell over kareem i think.
It depends on what your criteria is I suppose. Russell had the legendary defense, rebounding, and hell you can't argue with anchoring 11 titles. Kareem was a dominant scorer( the all-time leader), won a number of titles and MVPs. Hakeem may have been the most graceful center to ever play, and perhaps the most talented in terms of postplay. His moves were simply poetry in motion.

Personally I think center is the hardest to rank a number 1. Magic, Jordan, Bird, and Duncan are generally considered the best at their positions, every so often someone may make a case for Kobe, Malone, Stockton at the PG or Oscar, but when it comes to center there doesn't seem to be much consensus.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:02 PM
 
297 posts, read 342,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Personally I think center is the hardest to rank a number 1. Magic, Jordan, Bird, and Duncan are generally considered the best at their positions, every so often someone may make a case for Kobe, Malone, Stockton at the PG or Oscar, but when it comes to center there doesn't seem to be much consensus.
This is very true. I'll add too that you almost have to not even include centers in the "top 10 of all time" discussions. The position is just that different. And the good ones are just that "dominate".

Also, even though Duncan has always been labeled a "PF" with the exception of when Robinson was on the team, hasn't he always been really a center. Heck, even when he was playing with Robinson I feel like they were really playing with two centers. I also partly feel that they continued to list him as a center even after Robinson left because it would have been near impossible for him to make All-NBA first teams and be an All-Star starter with Shaq at the same position in the same conference.
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Old 06-13-2011, 02:26 PM
 
52,445 posts, read 42,179,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
It depends on what your criteria is I suppose. Russell had the legendary defense, rebounding, and hell you can't argue with anchoring 11 titles. Kareem was a dominant scorer( the all-time leader), won a number of titles and MVPs. Hakeem may have been the most graceful center to ever play, and perhaps the most talented in terms of postplay. His moves were simply poetry in motion.

Personally I think center is the hardest to rank a number 1. Magic, Jordan, Bird, and Duncan are generally considered the best at their positions, every so often someone may make a case for Kobe, Malone, Stockton at the PG or Oscar, but when it comes to center there doesn't seem to be much consensus.
I agree with this.

Center: 4-5 guys
PF: Duncan, people can argue malone etc but there is a gap there.
SF: Bird, argument here gets stickier due to different era issues.
SG: Jordan, while Kobe is great....when you look at the stats and accomplishments this position has the biggest, cleanest gap. That's not a knock on Kobe....I put him on Bird and Magics level....just not Jordan and it's an EASY argument to make.
PG: Magic, but arguments can be made for a few others.

So basically, I think Jordan and Duncan are the cleanest locks (Jordan by far) on their respective positions. Followed by probably Magic and then Bird.

There are a few guys that always lurk under the radar too due to the teams the played for....Dominique Wilkins was a beast in his prime.
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Old 06-13-2011, 03:03 PM
 
6,760 posts, read 10,472,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Ah the good ol days of the NBA
Larry Bird Choking Julius Erving | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thesmokingsection/809547792/ - broken link)

Not sure if people remember this but Barkely came running off the bench after this exchange

Back when it was fine to hate the Celtics
I still won't ever forget Dr J punching Bird while someone else was choking Bird and holding him. Made me lose respect for Dr J, one of the most classless things I've ever seen in the NBA. If you wanna fight, fight fair.
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Bright lights Baked Ziti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
I was having this discussion with friends and family over the weekend. We came up with a list, and a few of these names were challenged. I put those names in bold.

1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Dr. J
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Kobe
8. Russell
9. Shaq
10. Bird

It's hard to argue that Bird, Russell, or Shaq shouldn't be on this list. They have rings. But the argument was that Bill Russell was one-dimensional and dominated the sport at a time when it was not that competitive. The argument against Shaq is that he's not nearly as skilled as Olajuwon or Ewing even though he has rings. And the argument against Bird is that Dirk Nowitzki is currently better than Bird ever was, which means he has no business being on the list (assuming that Dirk is not a Top 10 player. hint: He's not).

For the most part, I agree with all 10 selections, but I wanted to hear what other people had to say about the list. How about Duncan or Karl Malone? Is there any space for Isiah? Jerry West? Elgin Baylor?
Wow, it's a tough choice. But, I think you should take out Dr.J and put Dream in there. His Dream shake alone puts him on the list , phenomenal offesive skills as well as defense and championship rings. Shaq should be on the list and given more respect despite his lack of defensive skills. He should have had more rebounds and block shots for his size. The guy was unstoppable and multiple championships as well.

Kobe...hmmm. Man, I love his game, his moves remind me of MJ but, I have to take him off the list and add the Big Fundamental with his 4 rings and 3 Finals MVP. I think Kobe gets too much credit for his 5 rings, he was not the best player on his first 3 rings, Shaq was the best player on that Laker team with 3 Finals MVP. It's a tough choice. I went back and forth on this one, specially how Kobe's Lakers got swept by the Mavs in the 2nd round and Duncan losing to the 8th seed Memphis but Duncan is old now and on his way out.

Bird stays on the list. I have to disagree with you that Dirk is better than Bird. Bird's all around game is way better than Dirk. Offensively I'd still take Bird over Dirk, Bird's will to win is just deadly and has the clutch gene. Congrats to Dirk for the championship this year but in previous years he just choked when it was crunch time. Defensively, Bird is way better with 3 time NBA all defensive 2nd team, Dirk couldn't play defense to save his life. Bird's passing skills were great as well. So, with 3 rings and 2 NBA finals mvp, I think bird stays for sure.

It's really tough to compare though, I went back and forth on that list on who should stay.
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
420 posts, read 682,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
I hope you are joking. Most people try to copy his game. Kobe has played a very similiar game to MJ.
U cant be serious.... Kobe?? R u talking about that guy that just got swept by Dallas???? Are you talking about Shaq's sidekick in the early 00's?? r u talking about the guy with 5 rings, and only 2 finals MVP's?? R u talking about the who everyone claims is the better shooter around 45%fg compared to MJ's +50% (MJ's percentage goes up more in the playoffs)?????

are you talking the guy who isn't even the clear-cut best in today's watered down league?? who's name is mentioned along side D Wade, Lebron, Dirk, Derrick Rose and the best in the league?? MJ stood alone as the best in the league, and continues to stand alone as the Greastest Of All Time!!
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Old 06-14-2011, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,961,008 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMR23 View Post
U cant be serious.... Kobe?? R u talking about that guy that just got swept by Dallas????
To the NBA Champion Dallas Mavs, Yes. He is the guy who dropped 81 in a game, something MJ didn't do.

Quote:
Are you talking about Shaq's sidekick in the early 00's??
So that explains 3 of the 5 rings... That's why Shaq earn what 1 more ring since yet Kobe got 2 more... It also explain the ones he won with Orlando.. oh wait he couldn't do it there. Hey MJ couldn't do it without Pippen.

Quote:
r u talking about the guy with 5 rings, and only 2 finals MVP's??
Don't forget his regular season MVP trophy and the 4 All Star MVP awards. Also, All-NBA first team most of his career. #10 All Time in Points Per Game, #8 All Time in Points made

Quote:
R u talking about the who everyone claims is the better shooter around 45%fg compared to MJ's +50% (MJ's percentage goes up more in the playoffs)?????
+50... try 49.7%... a whole 4% more.

Quote:
are you talking the guy who isn't even the clear-cut best in today's watered down league?? who's name is mentioned along side D Wade, Lebron, Dirk, Derrick Rose and the best in the league?? MJ stood alone as the best in the league, and continues to stand alone as the Greastest Of All Time!!
MJ, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Ewing, Miller, Barkley, ... hey I could go on if you would like. He didn't stand alone.

Kobe is a 15 season veteran. Lets compare apples to apples. Jordan's 15th to Kobe's 15th.

Kobe - 25.3pts on 45.1% shooting, 5.1 reb, 4.7ast; team made second round of playoffs
MJ - 20pts on 44.5% shooting, 6.1 reb, 3.8 ast; team didn't make the playoffs

Again, Kobe and Michael play/ed a similiar game. Both are great slashers with a good jumpshot and they both play really good defense.
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Old 06-14-2011, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,903,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post

Kobe is a 15 season veteran. Lets compare apples to apples. Jordan's 15th to Kobe's 15th.

Kobe - 25.3pts on 45.1% shooting, 5.1 reb, 4.7ast; team made second round of playoffs
MJ - 20pts on 44.5% shooting, 6.1 reb, 3.8 ast; team didn't make the playoffs

This isn't apples to apples, Jordan was 40 that season. The fairest thing to do would be to measure Jordan's 96-98 seasons, when he was closer in age to Kobe now (33 or so) and had played 13-14 seasons, and both at the end of their 'prime'. And even here, aside from Kobe's scoring the numbers are pretty comparable, and team-wise, I think it's safe to say the Wizards back then don't sniff the guys Kobe is currently with.
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Old 06-14-2011, 07:18 AM
 
52,445 posts, read 42,179,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
To the NBA Champion Dallas Mavs, Yes. He is the guy who dropped 81 in a game, something MJ didn't do.


So that explains 3 of the 5 rings... That's why Shaq earn what 1 more ring since yet Kobe got 2 more... It also explain the ones he won with Orlando.. oh wait he couldn't do it there. Hey MJ couldn't do it without Pippen.


Don't forget his regular season MVP trophy and the 4 All Star MVP awards. Also, All-NBA first team most of his career. #10 All Time in Points Per Game, #8 All Time in Points made


+50... try 49.7%... a whole 4% more.



MJ, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, Ewing, Miller, Barkley, ... hey I could go on if you would like. He didn't stand alone.

Kobe is a 15 season veteran. Lets compare apples to apples. Jordan's 15th to Kobe's 15th.

Kobe - 25.3pts on 45.1% shooting, 5.1 reb, 4.7ast; team made second round of playoffs
MJ - 20pts on 44.5% shooting, 6.1 reb, 3.8 ast; team didn't make the playoffs

Again, Kobe and Michael play/ed a similiar game. Both are great slashers with a good jumpshot and they both play really good defense.
I agree they are similar, with Jordan being the better of the two.

-Cherry picking the 15th season is funny.
-You didn't really just compare Jordan to Ewing, Miller etc? Bird, Magic and Hakeem are closer but still not quite there over the totality of thier careers. I would certainly agree there were some years where Hakeem was playing as well as anyone ever has.
-4% difference in shooting is enormous. That's about the difference between being a lottery team and making the playoffs.
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