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Old 07-15-2011, 07:52 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,282,352 times
Reputation: 1982

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
They also still keep in a guy to play Center. Being that there is only two centers on roster (when Noah is out), deductive reasoning tells you one of the two has to play the position during the game or Boozer has to shift. Thomas was limited to the few minutes due to foul trouble, hence Asik playing 16 minutes. If not, they would have run with Thomas the whole game with Boozer stepping in that role when Thomas needed rest like when they played other teams while Noah was out.

so we will sum this up as you obviously have ZERO idea as to how to scheme, game plan, or rotate players on a jr high school to nba level team because anyone with the slightest knowledge would know how these rotations work. just because you have a backup center doesnt mean you need to keep your starter or your best defender in the game. also, boozer in this case was the effective center for a portion of the game thus showing how the bulls where not concerned with any other center besides howard. ryan anderson has had 3 good games in his life, no need to game plan for him or anyone else outside of howard.


Let's see. He started during Mutombo finger wagging reign, then dealt with defensive beast Ben Wallace, and now has Superman. The 3 of them hold 9 of the titles. Is he really above their level of defense?
YES, duncan is as good OR BETTER a defender then them BUT as an underrated player he has not been recognized. this is easily proven by his all defensive team selections which NONE of those players (or any others in the history of the league) can match.


And you wonder where the lost in translation comes from... you tell me you "didn't say it" yet then you say it at the bottom.

As for your inner statement, my stance has always been that Howard is that much more dominate then his competition. Though, I feel that there are still good/great big men other than Howard, i.e. Love, Griffin, Lopez, etc.
lopez is a good to great big? griffin? LMAO good enough for me?!?
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,919,636 times
Reputation: 1807
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post



And you wonder where the lost in translation comes from... you tell me you "didn't say it" yet then you say it at the bottom.

As for your inner statement, my stance has always been that Howard is that much more dominate then his competition. Though, I feel that there are still good/great big men other than Howard, i.e. Love, Griffin, Lopez, etc.


Let me break it down for you further. Your opinion is that by me saying that today's competition isn't as good as in the 90's, you're equating that to mean that I'm saying the centers today are bad. NOOOOOO!

I'm going to draw you a relevant analogy, though my hopes aren't high at this point that you' ll get it. Hakeem Olajuwan is better than Dwight Howard IMO. Now, let's clarify this, because I say that, does NOT mean I think Dwight is bad. It only means that I think Hakeem is better.

Now, let's try this in the context of my main point. The upper echelon centers in the 90's are better than the competition that Dwight faces. Are there good centers today besides Dwight? Yes. Are they as good as the 90s best? No. Let's follow that to it's logical conclusion. If the best centers of the 90s are better than the best centers of this era, then overall it means that Robinson had tougher competition. Shaq, Hakeem, Ewing, Mourning, Mutumbo are all better than the best players that Dwight faces at the center spot. What's getting lost in translation is that you seem unable to grasp the concept that because I think one era of centers is overall better than the other, especially at the top, doesn't mean I think the 'lesser' era is crap. Whenever you're able to grasp this concept, then we can move on.

Again, let's go over this: I am not saying that there are no good centers today. Because I say that I think Robinson faced tougher competition overall is not equal to saying that the centers today are crap. Now..... Have I made my point clear for you, or do you need it further simplified?
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Old 07-16-2011, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,970,518 times
Reputation: 1357
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
so we will sum this up as you obviously have ZERO idea as to how to scheme, game plan, or rotate players on a jr high school to nba level team because anyone with the slightest knowledge would know how these rotations work. just because you have a backup center doesnt mean you need to keep your starter or your best defender in the game. also, boozer in this case was the effective center for a portion of the game thus showing how the bulls where not concerned with any other center besides howard. ryan anderson has had 3 good games in his life, no need to game plan for him or anyone else outside of howard.
Yep totally know rotation. I don't think you know basic basketball logic. No team in the league including your Bulls pulls all their big centers in order to play a small guy to a 6'10 Ryan Anderson and potentially a smaller guy on Brandon Bass. OK

Quote:
YES, duncan is as good OR BETTER a defender then them BUT as an underrated player he has not been recognized. this is easily proven by his all defensive team selections which NONE of those players (or any others in the history of the league) can match.
Duncan is recognized for his defensive achievements as shown in his All-Defensive team awards. As for Defensive Player of the Year, the guys that won the award outperformed the years they won them. Again anyone winning all those awards for defense, there is no way anyone can claim him being underrated.

Quote:
lopez is a good to great big? griffin? LMAO good enough for me?!?
Just because you are on a bad team doesn't make a bad player. I know you want to back Greg but if these guys aren't good or great, the only term left is bad and I know Greg doesn't think these guys are bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977
Blah Blah Blah...
Again, let's go over this: I am not saying that there are no good centers today. Because I say that I think Robinson faced tougher competition overall is not equal to saying that the centers today are crap. Now..... Have I made my point clear for you, or do you need it further simplified?
So to sum up your story...
Robinson and friends > Howard
Howard = best of today
If Howard = Good back then if he were playing
you said Howard has zero competition which makes them a step below him
so in all, these guys IYO can't be anything but decent to bad in the era discussion.
See the lost in translation now
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Old 07-16-2011, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,919,636 times
Reputation: 1807
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post

So to sum up your story...
Robinson and friends > Howard
Howard = best of today
If Howard = Good back then if he were playing
you said Howard has zero competition which makes them a step below him
so in all, these guys IYO can't be anything but decent to bad in the era discussion.
See the lost in translation now
No...

Robinson and friends( Shaq/Hakeem/ Ewing)> Howard
Howard= best of today
Howard= Mourning/Mutumbo level in the 90's( tier below Robinson and friends)
Howard's competition in 2000's< Robinson and friends

I didn't say Howard's competition is zero. I said it's not as good as Robinson's was, IN PARTICULAR the upper echelon centers. The fact that you keep saying that I'M saying his competition is zero, when I AM saying that it's not as good, leads to one of three conclusions:

1) You're poor at comprehension

2) You're deliberating misinterpreting my words, which would lead to...

3) You're trolling.

What's the problem? Saying Dwight's competition is inferior to Robinson's isn't saying Dwight has zero competition.
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Old 07-16-2011, 10:33 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,282,352 times
Reputation: 1982
You do realize boozer is 6'9 266 lbs, taj Gibson is 6'9", asik is 7', and Thomas is 6'9" right? It's not like by resting Thomas they lose height/size. If the bulls next big was 6'6" you would make sense.
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:04 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,282,352 times
Reputation: 1982
By the way, not a bulls fan, try again.
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Old 07-16-2011, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,970,518 times
Reputation: 1357
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
You do realize boozer is 6'9 266 lbs, taj Gibson is 6'9", asik is 7', and Thomas is 6'9" right? It's not like by resting Thomas they lose height/size. If the bulls next big was 6'6" you would make sense.
Never said they weren't. Why do you keep bringing up Gibson... he has never covered Howard 1-on-1, let alone any other center in the league. He has and will always play at the 4 for them. I am done talking semantics.

Quote:
By the way, not a bulls fan, try again.
Yet you are trying to argue with a fan of a team, that played that night, who actually watched the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977
What's the problem? Saying Dwight's competition is inferior to Robinson's isn't saying Dwight has zero competition.
I will end the discussion with this; to put real values on players (take all factors into consideration).
On 5 point scale, 1=great, 2=good, 3=decent, 4=bad, 5=atrocious
Dwight Howard
Joakim Noah
DeMarcus Cousins
Brook Lopez
Tyson Chandler
Marcus Camby
Andrea Bargnani
Marc Gasol
Joel Anthony

Quote:
1) You're poor at comprehension

2) You're deliberating misinterpreting my words, which would lead to...

3) You're trolling.
This is more of what I meant about in the other thread.
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Old 07-16-2011, 04:07 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,282,352 times
Reputation: 1982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
Never said they weren't. Why do you keep bringing up Gibson... he has never covered Howard 1-on-1, let alone any other center in the league. He has and will always play at the 4 for them. I am done talking semantics.

because you asked who would guard the back up center anderson and bass, as if kurt thomas and carlos boozer where the only players the bulls have. taj gibson is not a small man, he isnt 7' but he isnt 6' either. how do you know he has never guarded howard? have you checked every minute of every game footage by footage? your arguments get more and more ridiculous and i see you try to "change the subject" often. thats a sign of a person insecure of their arguments. hell you bring up blake griffin as one of thoe "great" centers that howard plays against yet blake is not a center either, a PF instead.

Yet you are trying to argue with a fan of a team, that played that night, who actually watched the game.

because i am a fan of the game, how do you know i have not watched them? you assume because i am not a "fan" of either team i know nothing of how they play? thats a fools argument. league pass baby!


I will end the discussion with this; to put real values on players (take all factors into consideration).
On 5 point scale, 1=great, 2=good, 3=decent, 4=bad, 5=atrocious
Dwight Howard ( 1 today, 2 in history of the game)
Joakim Noah (2 today 3 history)
DeMarcus Cousins (incomplete)
Brook Lopez (3 today 3-4 history)
Tyson Chandler (3)
Marcus Camby (2-3)
Andrea Bargnani (3-4 at best)
Marc Gasol (incomplete but a 2-3 for now)
Joel Anthony (incomplete but 3-4 for now)


This is more of what I meant about in the other thread.
im done, i will leave it to greg, this is getting off to left field, it also has zero to do with lebron so good night now.
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Old 07-17-2011, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,919,636 times
Reputation: 1807
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post


I will end the discussion with this; to put real values on players (take all factors into consideration).
On 5 point scale, 1=great, 2=good, 3=decent, 4=bad, 5=atrocious
Dwight Howard
Joakim Noah
DeMarcus Cousins
Brook Lopez
Tyson Chandler
Marcus Camby
Andrea Bargnani
Marc Gasol
Joel Anthony

Howard 1 today, 2 in the 90's
Noah 2 today, 3 in the 90's
Cousins too early to rate
Lopez 2 today, 3 in the 90's
Chandler 3 today, 3 in the 90's
Camby 3 today, 3 in the 90's
Bargnani 3 today, 4 in the 90's
Gasol 2 today, 3 in the 90's
Anthony 3 today, 4 in the 90's

I add the following

Shaquille Oneal 1 in the 90's, 1 today
David Robinson 1 in the 90's, 1 today
Hakeem Olajuwan 1 in the 90's, 1 today
Patrick Ewing 1 in the 90's, 1 today
Alonzo Mourning, 2 in the 90's, 1 today
Dikembe Mutumbo 2 in the 90's, 1 today
Rik Smits 3 in the 90's, 2 today


This is more of what I meant about in the other thread.

Because I have repeatedly said that I've never said Dwight has zero competition, just inferior to what Robinson faced. You continue to equate that to me saying that Dwight had zero competition, despite my many attempts to set the record straight. So yeah, at this point I really do feel that either you have some comprehension issues, or you're deliberating twisting my words. I'm not trying to be rude, but constantly twisting my words after countless explanations on my end has become beyond annoying.
Bold( and hopefully final) reply
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Old 07-17-2011, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,970,518 times
Reputation: 1357
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
because you asked who would guard the back up center anderson and bass, as if kurt thomas and carlos boozer where the only players the bulls have. taj gibson is not a small man, he isnt 7' but he isnt 6' either.
Twist what you want. I never said Gibson was a small guy. I just stated he never plays Center position, whether against Orlando or not.

P.S. Bass doesn't play Center at all for us either.

Quote:
how do you know he has never guarded howard? have you checked every minute of every game footage by footage? your arguments get more and more ridiculous and i see you try to "change the subject" often.

Gibson has not and will never guard Howard 1-on-1, let alone any other Center in the league. The only time you will ever see him anywhere close to him is when he comes over to help i.e. 2-on-1. As for the other claim, I watch my team so I am pretty confident in the 100% claim.

Quote:
hell you bring up blake griffin as one of thoe "great" centers that howard plays against yet blake is not a center either, a PF instead.

Quote me. When did I state Griffin as a Center? I didn't. When did I state he guards Howard? I didn't. I called him a big man. Last I checked he is 6'10 and plays in the 4. The term big men applies to guys that play in both position. Not sure why you got confused here when the same term was applied to Duncan and Dirk by all three parties in another thread.

Quote:
this is getting off to left field, it also has zero to do with lebron so good night now.
You took it off there by being confused on youtube clips. Either way you cut it... all the Chicago bigs (minus Noah) got a chance to stop Howard and they didn't (the clip, i.e. Fact, showed that). He went off for 40 abusing their pride in the process. Go back to discussing Lebron then...
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