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Old 07-08-2011, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
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Lebron's new decision this year:


YouTube - ‪Lebron James: The New Decision‬‏
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Old 07-09-2011, 09:09 AM
JL
 
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The longer this thread keeps going, the more i will root for him. I wanna go au contraire.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
The hate has really gotten to the sick point. Any player going to cleveland should think twice about it ;IMO.
Is Cleveland so bad? They were terrible last year had some unfortunate injuries to key players- and they still had a great attendance record. Seems like a lot of support to me. Did they tear down Z when he left? No, in fact they gave him a standing ovation- he didn't put on a show when he left and said "hey world look at me and where I'm taking my talents to". Most Cleveland fans, will get over the way he left the city. But they are still scrathcing their heads about other things.

I don't feel bad for Lebron. When your nickname is "The king" and you join forces to be a "The Queen" of another team after you've put yourself on the same playing field as Michael Jordan- he won't get Jordan or Kobe type respect.

Funny thing is- he had a good supporting cast in Cleveland- lots of nice role players who would have remained in tact and as history points out- Dan Gilbert would have done everything to add another piece this past year. He would have probably been back to the Finals minus all the garbage of the past year.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post

He would have probably been back to the Finals minus all the garbage of the past year.
The Bulls would have totally shut down the Cavs team that James played with 2 years ago. I can't see 'realistically', what addition(s) would have gotten them past this year's Bulls team.
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Old 07-12-2011, 03:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
The Bulls would have totally shut down the Cavs team that James played with 2 years ago. I can't see 'realistically', what addition(s) would have gotten them past this year's Bulls team.
How many games did the 09-10 Cavs win? Clearly come playoff time Lebron's head wasn't where it needed to be.

I'm not saying that the Bulls didn't improve- they would have had to improve greatly when you figure they lost to Cavs in five games that year. There were times in that series where the Bulls were clearly out classed. Personally I think Noah played out of his mind that series and wasn't that same guy this postseason.

As far as additions, Gilbert improved the Cavs each year- I don't see how the Cavs with Lebron last year don't go "all in" again.

I'd also throw in, I like the Cavs chances this past year if they had Lebron against the Celts with an injured Rondo.

The East was open for business this year. When the Cavs lost in the playoffs with Lebron they lost to teams that had some type of legit presence down low but threw it around the arc and made their fair share of shots (SA,Orl,Bos). I didn't see that type of balance in the East. If Orlando a few years back hits their wide open looks against the Lakers they are World Champs and you could argue that was the best recent Lakers team. Orlando was a dangerous team that year peaking at the right time. The younger Celts teams were dangerous as well! I was rooting against the Heat all year, but had a strong feeling even with their struggles they would win the East, when Rondo went down I thought Lebron was getting his ring.

Back to my point, Lebron clearly didn't get ahead with his move.
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post

How many games did the 09-10 Cavs win?

How many did they win in 08-09? 66....and the end result was a 4-1 loss to the Magic, with Cleveland's lone win off a miracle buzzerbeater by Lebron. And Lebron played out of his mind that series....38,8,8. And the Magic weren't close to the defensive team as this years Bulls.


I'm not saying that the Bulls didn't improve- they would have had to improve greatly when you figure they lost to Cavs in five games that year.

Yeah, I'd say 62 wins with Boozer and Noah out for much of the season showed pretty marked improvement.


There were times in that series where the Bulls were clearly out classed.

Can you really compare the 2010 Bulls to the 2011 version? Rose took a giant leap, they got Boozer( who I'm not that high on but he's still an improvement over what they had in the 2010 year), Deng had a great all-around season. The defense was off the charts... what happened in 2010 doesn't have any bearing on what could have happened in 2011 if the Bulls met a Lebron-led Cavs team.


As far as additions, Gilbert improved the Cavs each year- I don't see how the Cavs with Lebron last year don't go "all in" again.

Not enough to get over the hump clearly. Who was brought in? Mo Williams? Great regular seasons player, folded in the playoffs. Jamison? Gives scoring punch but he certainly isn't the 'missing' piece if you have title aspirations. A past his prime Shaq? They had the opportunity to get Amare Stoudamire, but wanted to hold onto Hickson. Bosh stated flat-out he wasn't interested in going to Cleveland as a free agent. What kind of assets did they have that would have netted them someone(s) who could get them over the hump?

I'd also throw in, I like the Cavs chances this past year if they had Lebron against the Celts with an injured Rondo.

Perhaps, this years Celtics wasn't the Celtics of old, especially once Rondo went down. But the Bulls would have been an entirely different story, I predict....



Back to my point, Lebron clearly didn't get ahead with his move.

We'll see.
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,946,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post
Did they tear down Z when he left? No, in fact they gave him a standing ovation- he didn't put on a show when he left and said "hey world look at me and where I'm taking my talents to".
Why would anyone tear him down? Ownership dealt his 10+ mil contract to Washington who then cut him; Cleveland was aware of that. That's more of the Cleveland ownership pulling a "Lebron" on Big Z.

Lebron was their everything and with him leaving they knew their franchise would crumble, which it did. This is why all the bitterness. The pieces weren't that good.

Quote:
Most Cleveland fans, will get over the way he left the city.
Not with Kyrie "I only played 11 games on Duke's big screen/shooting system" Irving.

Hell, I live in Charlotte and when I see my Magic play, these ex-UNC, NC-St, <insert ACC team here> fans boo everytime Redick has the ball, gets announced, etc. This is for him dominating their teams in college.

I expect the James thing to last alot longer and lot more "out for blood" type mentality from the fans for time to come. Expect it even worse when he gets his first ring.

Quote:
Funny thing is- he had a good supporting cast in Cleveland- lots of nice role players who would have remained in tact and as history points out- Dan Gilbert would have done everything to add another piece this past year. He would have probably been back to the Finals minus all the garbage of the past year.
Current state shows they aren't anything. Some retired, some ride the bench, other got dealt. The ones remaining on the team went on to an atrocious record. As for Dan Gilbert, time ran out on giving Lebron good teammates.
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:39 AM
 
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Two things...
-Hickson for Stoudmire was a Cleveland creation. FYI- Phoenix nixed the deal. Would have loved that trade by the way.

-You make some good points- Too bad we can't put the 09-10 Cavs against the 10-11 Bulls- but we saw what the 09-10 Bulls could do, and the Bulls added a solid offensive piece although a defensive liability in Boozer (we know all about Boozer in Cleveland), Rose was a year older, Deng a year wiser. A better match-up? yes, a convincing edge either way? no.

I'm not with you about the 08-09 Orlando team. They would have destroyed the Bulls this past year. Orlando wasn't close to defensive team the Bulls were?- they had Dwight Howard in the paint and a ton of length on the perimeter. They were a matchup nightmare for every team, and if not for a shooting slump in the Finals the Lakers legacy would have been a little less.

I sense an attitude with your post- I think you are confusing this past years Bulls team and the one moving forward with the Jordan led Bulls of the 90s. They aren't even close.
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Old 07-13-2011, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastbias View Post

-You make some good points- Too bad we can't put the 09-10 Cavs against the 10-11 Bulls- but we saw what the 09-10 Bulls could do, and the Bulls added a solid offensive piece although a defensive liability in Boozer (we know all about Boozer in Cleveland), Rose was a year older, Deng a year wiser. A better match-up? yes, a convincing edge either way? no.

Hard to tell, its speculation either way. The 2011 Bulls are CLEARLY better than the 2010 Bulls. Can you really say the 09-10 Cavs -with Lebron- would have been better? Shaq had left for Boston, and even if he was still in Cleveland, he was injured practically the entire year. Big Z is, what, 37 now? Jamison is Jamison..... Mo Williams is Mo Williams.... Delonte West? Without any major additions, you can't definitively say that the 2011 Cavs with Lebron would have been better than the 09 and 2010 versions of the Cavs... or that they'd have not buckled under the playoff pressure like that did the prior two years.

I'm not with you about the 08-09 Orlando team. They would have destroyed the Bulls this past year.

I don't agree. Even if they were capable of beating them, destroy is a gross exaggeration. The main advantage they have is Howard in the middle, and this year's Bulls had plenty of size( and quality size I should add) to throw at him.


Orlando wasn't close to defensive team the Bulls were?- they had Dwight Howard in the paint and a ton of length on the perimeter.

The Bulls have Joakim Noah in the paint, who is no slouch defensively. They've got Asik, they've got Taj Gibson, Deng and Bogans on the perimeter. Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkaglo aren't going to make anyone lose sleep on the defensive end of things, if that's who you're referring to.


I sense an attitude with your post-

I'm not sure why you come to this conclusion. Anyone who's been on these forums long enough knows I speak direct and to the point. You responded to me, I countered with my own views. Why would you think this? Nothing's been said to 'have an attitude' about-we're just discussing basketball.


I think you are confusing this past years Bulls team and the one moving forward with the Jordan led Bulls of the 90s. They aren't even close.

I don't even know where this comes from. My point about this years Bulls has NOTHING to do with Jordan's version. I'm judging the current Bulls on their own merits. I didn't even THINK about Jordan's Bulls earlier. What an.....odd comment.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:55 AM
 
2,837 posts, read 1,776,861 times
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10-11 Cavs with Lebron better than 09-10 Cavs with Lebron? I'd say Yes, based on our owner and his sense of urgency and our pursuit of big names prior to Lebron bolting. Would we need to be better to defeat the Bulls? debatable and maybe No. I guess I'm not as high on the Bulls as you would hope. The Playoff Celts with a healthy Rondo would give them fits. Sadly, as much as I'm rooting against the Heat- I could see them working together better and beating the Bulls worse this next year. If they get Howard for Lebron- competitive basketball is over. Wade and Howard would be a lethal combo. The East as playoff time hit was bad this year.

I don't and will not moving forward underestimate Dan Gilbert, in fact I wish he would own my other teams (the Indians and the Browns). Shaq was a problem/bad fit for the Cavs- many astute basketball minds would tell you that. I'd say pretty confidently addition by subtraction. I know you don't like Mo, and I think you see a similar deal with Mo going to the Clips. I think Baron Davis when healthy played well. We never saw Lebron with a True Point when he was in Cleveland. Would have been interesting to see Baron Davis paired with Lebron. As far as Bosh goes, I don't think we needed Bosh to make it to the finals, but we inquired about him and pursued him- what makes you think that Plan B (IF Lebron re-signed) wouldn't be decent- we had trade chips and an owner willing to go to luxury tax hell and back.

I don't share the same enthusiam that you have for Noah on the defensive end. If you just consider put back baskets on the offensive end- he's an all-star for sure but Howard would own him and he would be on the bench most of series in foul trouble. Deng and Gibson would be challenged in our hypothetical with Turk and Lewis extending swinging the ball around (like they did so well) and shooting over them. I'm singing alot of praise to that 08-09 Magic team- they were awesome for most of that season.

Maybe I went too far with the attitude comment. I just see alot more Bulls enthusiasts have been awakened with their recent success. I predict disappoint from them in coming years - just my opinion though.
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