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Old 06-16-2011, 09:24 AM
 
Location: CLEVELAND OHIO
434 posts, read 779,975 times
Reputation: 234

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendu View Post
Durant recently re-upped with OKC, and unlike Dan Gilbert, it seems that Thunder ownership is committed to building an actual team around Durant.

IMO, Cavs ownership got too comfortable with the notion that LeBron is a hometown guy and they can pay him more than other teams. I don't think Gilbert really thought LeBron would leave when all was said and done, though the warning signs were there.
Dan Gilbert is by no means cheap, the bottom line is there was not a player out there that was going to get us over the hump that was going to sign.... ... He was going to leave anyway...IT WAS HOW HE LEFT...
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Chicago
931 posts, read 1,321,090 times
Reputation: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubyanumberone View Post
While most of the moves the Cavs made didn't work out no one can say they sat on their hands and did nothing to get better. Ferry basically turned the roster over three times and LeBron signed off on every move. Probably the biggest blunder the Cavs made was not trading Hickson for Amare' when they had the chance regardless of what LeBron wanted. They get him instead of Jamison and perhaps we beat Boston and make it to the title game last year.

Gilbert, Ferry and Brown deserve at least 1/2 of the blame but they really were in a no win situation. LeBron just wanted to go play with his buddies and not have to be the Alpha dog.

I honestly don't think there was anything they could have done.
Good point...perhaps bending over backwards to LeBron's wishes was the fatal mistake.

MJ didn't really like Pippen, and both MJ and Pip were against Krause's obsession with Toni Kukoc. MJ also hated the Oakley-for-Cartwright trade. If Jordan had say over personnel moves, things could have turned out a lot worse for the Bulls.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:35 AM
 
1,563 posts, read 1,662,405 times
Reputation: 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendu View Post
Good point...perhaps bending over backwards to LeBron's wishes was the fatal mistake.

MJ didn't really like Pippen, and both MJ and Pip were against Krause's obsession with Toni Kukoc. MJ also hated the Oakley-for-Cartwright trade. If Jordan had say over personnel moves, things could have turned out a lot worse for the Bulls.

After making my last post I realised I didn't specify WHY the whole leBron debacle was at least 50 % Gilbert's fault. It wasn't coaching or personel moves. He let LeBron have WAY too much pull. Allowing him to basically overrule or ignore Ferry and Brown was madness.

For example, Mike Brown got a ton of flack for the way the Cavs played offense. Too often, the offense would be nothing more than LeBron standing at the top of the key dribbling for 20 seconds only to chuck up an awful, off balance three point shot. You don't think Mike Brown saw that the Cavs were at their best when they moved the ball around and LeBron was attacking the basket? Of course he did. LeBron just ran what he wanted to and Mike Brown coiuldn't do anything about it.

Never again will any organization allow a player to take over things the way Gund and then Gilbert allowed LeBron to do while in Cleveland.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:43 AM
 
1,563 posts, read 1,662,405 times
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The Favre situation in Minnesota was somewhat similar to LeBron in Cleveland in that the player ran the show and did what he wanted.

In my opinion that just doesn't work in a team sport situation where the players need to respect and obey the coaching staff.
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Old 06-16-2011, 01:45 PM
 
2,113 posts, read 2,327,708 times
Reputation: 1762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
The Spurs organization has been led by stars who are largely 'anti-Bling' and far more down to earth than many of today's spoiled brats. Duncan and Robinson, Ginobli, Parker are all humble, low-key personalities.
Definitely. A pleasant change from the childish antics of LeBron and unfortunately Wade.

Durant seems to be following that mindset instead of the spoiled brats', which is refreshing for a young star.
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:57 AM
 
52,075 posts, read 41,881,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
The Spurs organization has been led by stars who are largely 'anti-Bling' and far more down to earth than many of today's spoiled brats. Duncan and Robinson, Ginobli, Parker are all humble, low-key personalities.
You should have stopped after the first 2 or 3 Greg.
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Old 06-17-2011, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,884,885 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
You should have stopped after the first 2 or 3 Greg.
Lol I got ya....
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Old 06-17-2011, 08:19 AM
 
52,075 posts, read 41,881,580 times
Reputation: 32474
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubyanumberone View Post
After making my last post I realised I didn't specify WHY the whole leBron debacle was at least 50 % Gilbert's fault. It wasn't coaching or personel moves. He let LeBron have WAY too much pull. Allowing him to basically overrule or ignore Ferry and Brown was madness.

For example, Mike Brown got a ton of flack for the way the Cavs played offense. Too often, the offense would be nothing more than LeBron standing at the top of the key dribbling for 20 seconds only to chuck up an awful, off balance three point shot. You don't think Mike Brown saw that the Cavs were at their best when they moved the ball around and LeBron was attacking the basket? Of course he did. LeBron just ran what he wanted to and Mike Brown coiuldn't do anything about it.

Never again will any organization allow a player to take over things the way Gund and then Gilbert allowed LeBron to do while in Cleveland.
I pointed out earlier in this thread that out of the 4 other starters with Lebron last year, 1 is barely playing, 1 is a bench player and the other 2 are bad starters of horrible teams. Basically, Cleveland had no one other than lebron that would have started for the Celtics, Bulls, Spurs, Mavs, Atlanta....heck most playoff teams.

If you are going to come into the basketball forum let's at least discuss basketball factually instead of letting your imagination reinvent the past because now you hate the guy.

In his last season with Cleveland lebron was #3 in the nba in field goal attempts. You know he has never been #1? He was #6 in the NBA in assists that season. He shot over 50%.

LeBron James NBA & ABA Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com
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Old 06-17-2011, 08:36 AM
 
1,563 posts, read 1,662,405 times
Reputation: 1046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I pointed out earlier in this thread that out of the 4 other starters with Lebron last year, 1 is barely playing, 1 is a bench player and the other 2 are bad starters of horrible teams. Basically, Cleveland had no one other than lebron that would have started for the Celtics, Bulls, Spurs, Mavs, Atlanta....heck most playoff teams.

If you are going to come into the basketball forum let's at least discuss basketball factually instead of letting your imagination reinvent the past because now you hate the guy.

In his last season with Cleveland lebron was #3 in the nba in field goal attempts. You know he has never been #1? He was #6 in the NBA in assists that season. He shot over 50%.

LeBron James NBA & ABA Statistics | Basketball-Reference.com

I don't hate the guy but I do stand by what I said. It is accurate and I will bet you anything that I saw way more Cavs games with LeBron that you did. Too often the offense would stagnate b/c LeBron would stand at the top of the key, dribble and then chuck up bad threes.

As far as the personel moves, every move the Cavs made, going back to picking up Larry Hughes, was lauded by everyone and signed off by LeBron. Did they all work out? No, but they were not all horrible. I also think that if last years Cavs would have been reasonably healthy they would have won 10 to 15 more games. Still terrible but much more bearable considering they lost one of the two or three best players in the NBA. What if Bosh, Bron and Wade would have gone to Toronto instead of Miami? How bad would have miami sucked? Why do all of you endlessly dog Cleveland?

Why is any LEGITIMATE criticism of LeBron by anyone from Ohio considered hating?
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:42 AM
 
52,075 posts, read 41,881,580 times
Reputation: 32474
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubyanumberone View Post
I don't hate the guy but I do stand by what I said. It is accurate and I will bet you anything that I saw way more Cavs games with LeBron that you did. Too often the offense would stagnate b/c LeBron would stand at the top of the key, dribble and then chuck up bad threes.

As far as the personel moves, every move the Cavs made, going back to picking up Larry Hughes, was lauded by everyone and signed off by LeBron. Did they all work out? No, but they were not all horrible. I also think that if last years Cavs would have been reasonably healthy they would have won 10 to 15 more games. Still terrible but much more bearable considering they lost one of the two or three best players in the NBA. What if Bosh, Bron and Wade would have gone to Toronto instead of Miami? How bad would have miami sucked? Why do all of you endlessly dog Cleveland?

Why is any LEGITIMATE criticism of LeBron by anyone from Ohio considered hating?
This entire tangent started off the premise that the cavs managed to put some talent around Lebron. The drop off in their record and subsequent play of the cavs and former Lebron teamates seems to indicate otherwise. No one has challenged my assertion about the other Cavs starters even be able to start on decent NBA teams. (That's pretty telling)

I'm "dogging" on Cleveland for presenting actual facts and statistics and clearly supporting my opinions? Their owner is looking stupid with his pissing contest with The Jerk and other than lucking into Lebron in a no-brainer draft 8 years ago Cleveland has not made a good move with their franchise in a decade or more. I don't hate them, it's just common sense that they are probably one of the 5 worst run franchises in the NBA. (They are better runner than the Knicks)

FYI- You could take Dirk off the Mavs or Rose off the Bulls and still make the playoffs in the east. When Jordan retired the Bulls still made it to the ECF....just saying.
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