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View Poll Results: Do You think the Miami Heat have reached their potential?
Yes the performance this regular and postseason is the ceiling. 11 29.73%
No they have alot of learning, chemistry, and (fill in the blank) do to. 26 70.27%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-20-2011, 08:27 PM
 
Location: So California
8,548 posts, read 8,884,653 times
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...And its not just that Lebron got passive, he got scared. He's afraid to fail, so much so, that he lets someone else do it.
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:52 PM
 
Location: San José, CA
3,265 posts, read 5,788,317 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaolin070388 View Post
LeBron is the best player in the league
He's not the best player in the league. He's just not. The best player in the league doesn't quit in two consecutive playoffs. Does he have the most potential talent? Yes, probably the highest ceiling in the league. But if he can't put it together when it matters, then the best player in the league then becomes those that do.
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Old 06-21-2011, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Lebron was clearly the best 2 years ago, but something the past year or so has changed. And to me it started with the 'suspect' play against Boston in the 2010 playoffs. Right now I'd take Dwight over him, and heck I'm inclined to take Durant too. And no, I don't think Durant overall impacts the game in the multitude of ways Lebron can, but at 23 he can become a much better defender( has the body for it), can improve his passing, and he plays a more 'skilled' game offensively than Lebron does. Plus I think his game will age better.....
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:22 AM
 
51,993 posts, read 41,825,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Lebron was clearly the best 2 years ago, but something the past year or so has changed. And to me it started with the 'suspect' play against Boston in the 2010 playoffs. Right now I'd take Dwight over him, and heck I'm inclined to take Durant too. And no, I don't think Durant overall impacts the game in the multitude of ways Lebron can, but at 23 he can become a much better defender( has the body for it), can improve his passing, and he plays a more 'skilled' game offensively than Lebron does. Plus I think his game will age better.....
I'm curious if Lebron will start working on a post game.
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:05 AM
 
297 posts, read 340,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
and he [Durant] plays a more 'skilled' game offensively than Lebron does.
I disagree with this part. Other than the 90% FT shooting, I don't see him as more skilled. I thought that these playoffs really showed the flaws in Durant's game. Some of them are the same flaws Lebron has, very little post up game. He also struggles to create his own shot at times too. Relies too much on catching and shooting. Can be a streaky outside shooter relying on it too much. They also need to adjust the rule on the swing through contact fouls. It is ridiculous because Durant initiates the contact every single time and always gets the call. If the defenders arm isn't moving it shouldn't be a foul IMO.
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:25 AM
 
406 posts, read 504,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parti Rhinocéros View Post
He's not the best player in the league. He's just not. The best player in the league doesn't quit in two consecutive playoffs. Does he have the most potential talent? Yes, probably the highest ceiling in the league. But if he can't put it together when it matters, then the best player in the league then becomes those that do.

He is the best player. The best player doesn't always win, but it doesn't mean they're not the best. Jordan was the best in the league from 1988-1990 and the Bulls didn't win in that span.


Quote:
I'm curious if Lebron will start working on a post game.

LeBron himself said playing the post is boring. He really doesn't have the length to play the 4 and be dominant at it. If he switched to the 4 right now, he'd have to go up against guys like Duncan, Garnett, Kendrick Perkins, Tyson Chandler, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Amare Stoudemire, and Elton Brand to name a few. These guys minus Brand are taller and have more length.
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:45 AM
 
Location: San José, CA
3,265 posts, read 5,788,317 times
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The obvious one, for me, is D-Wade. I was never a Wade fan but it's clear he's the better player. That's why when someone continues to say Lebron is best player in the league when he's not even the best player on his own team is silly. Wade is older but he's alpha dog #1 and it's obvious. Give me one season - I'll take Wade over Lebron 8 days out of the week. The best player in the league must have the most heart. Lebron's only 26 but his stock is seemingly depreciating when it should be soaring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaolin070388 View Post
He is the best player.
That's interesting, being that he's not even the most dominating player on his team. You're confusing 'most talented' with 'best player.'

The specific reason for why his team didn't win the last 2 years was him, not the other way around. Jordan wasn't ever the reason his team didn't win.

How do you watch Wade and James on the court throughout the playoffs and come to the conclusion that Lebron is better than Wade?
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,881,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalobrandon View Post
I disagree with this part. Other than the 90% FT shooting, I don't see him as more skilled. I thought that these playoffs really showed the flaws in Durant's game. Some of them are the same flaws Lebron has, very little post up game. He also struggles to create his own shot at times too. Relies too much on catching and shooting. Can be a streaky outside shooter relying on it too much. They also need to adjust the rule on the swing through contact fouls. It is ridiculous because Durant initiates the contact every single time and always gets the call. If the defenders arm isn't moving it shouldn't be a foul IMO.
So what do you consider more skilled? Because being a dead-eye shooter requires more skill than putting your head down and stampeding to the rim. And since he doesn't appear quite as explosive as before, Lebron can't even rely on that tactic anymore, particularly when teams clog the lane. Which places more emphasis on him to refine the other parts of his game( shooting) or add completely missing parts( a competent post game). Being a 6'9 shooter presents more problems over the long haul, then someone who relies more on athleticism. Durant's scoring is primarily a product of skill, not overwhelming physical ability.

And for the record, this playoffs also showed the flaws in Lebron's game, or at least brought them right to the fore: In the finals, when his shot is off and he can't get to the rim, he folds like an accordion. Because he has no other offensive abilities( like a post game) to turn to if other aspects of his offense aren't clicking. I mean, hell, Lebron wasn't even drawing fouls to get cheap, quick points at the foul line. I've seen Michael Jordan's jumpshot go to total hell one game, and he still wind up with 20+ points, because he had other attributes to go to.

Last edited by Roman77; 06-21-2011 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:59 AM
 
406 posts, read 504,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parti Rhinocéros View Post
That's interesting, being that he's not even the most dominating player on his team. You're confusing 'most talented' with 'best player.'

He's deferring. It has nothing to do with not being the best. Since LeBron has other stars, he wants to coast to a title.


Quote:
The specific reason for why his team didn't win the last 2 years was him, not the other way around. Jordan wasn't ever the reason his team didn't win.

You're not winning anything when Mo Williams is your second best player. If Danny Ferry pulled the trigger on Amare Stoudemire at the trade deadline last year, it would likely be a completely different story.


Quote:
How do you watch Wade and James on the court throughout the playoffs and come to the conclusion that Lebron is better than Wade?

Because he's the more dominant player. Being the better and more dominant player doesn't automatically mean you fit in a system. LeBron is still better, he just deferred because he's a b*tch and can't take any criticism.
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,881,684 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaolin070388 View Post


LeBron himself said playing the post is boring. He really doesn't have the length to play the 4 and be dominant at it. If he switched to the 4 right now, he'd have to go up against guys like Duncan, Garnett, Kendrick Perkins, Tyson Chandler, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Amare Stoudemire, and Elton Brand to name a few. These guys minus Brand are taller and have more length.

Jordan didn't have the length to play the 4 either, but that didn't stop him from developing a post game to use on opposing shooting guards and small forwards. If Lebron had a post game, he'd be matched up against other small forwards mainly, who'd have no chance of stopping him.

And on the odd chance via a defensive switch that a power forward winds up on him, that's when he uses his speed to get by them. Jordan and Kobe diversified their games to counter a myriad of defensive scenarios, and that's what made/makes them such potent scorers. Lebron will need to do the same as his physical ability deteriorates years from now, and adding a post-game is essential to that end.
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