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Old 06-16-2011, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,946,077 times
Reputation: 1357

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Which is why Cleveland surrounded Lebron with shooters: Mo Williams, Anthony Parker, Delonte West, Bobbi Gibson.
Must be a joke.
Williams: 44% (average)
Parker: mid guy/slasher
West: non-offensive weapon
Gibson: 41% (not good)

Quote:
As for what he did in Miami, note that Wade who is normally good for 7 assists himself, had his average reduced to under 5 assists a game. And how many assists did the point guard for the Heat get? 2-3 a game at most. On the Heat, the point guard role is suitably to be spot up shooters, not primary playmakers. Once again, Lebron was given control of an offense to amass a decent number of assists. And with Wade and Bosh on his team, he had no reason NOT to amass high assist numbers.
Why bring Super Mario into this... The PG role for the most part is gone on most teams (not just Miami) due to all the combo guards. I can't name more than say 3-5 real point guards in the league. But that is completely different topic. Lebron's numbers should have gone down but they really didn't fluctuate that much. 1 superstar, 1 ball != 3 superstars, 1 ball. What I mean by that is each player can only touch the ball so much and each requires wanting to touch the ball so much. But yes, his assists shouldn't have change much since he had better players around him to dish to.

Quote:
Who aside from Jordan was a major scoring threat? Kukoc? Grant? Cartwright? Wennington? Longley? Hodges? RODMAN? How does one average 6-7 assists a game like Pippen did, within an offense that doesn't allow for one player to dominate the ball, with few POTENT offensive options around him asides from Jordan? Kukoc was the only guy, aside from Jordan and Pippen, on ALL the Bulls championship squads who was offensively independent and able to create for himself.
Who was a major threat on those Cavs teams besides Lebron? The ones I just touch upon? Boozer was only there for one year. Let me tell you. No one was a threat but Lebron. They were a bunch of A) average, B) scrub, or C) too young (Hickson). The Bulls had Jordan, Pippen, and Kukoc. They also had amazing true shooters like Steve Kerr and Craig Hodges (which the Bulls under utilized). With guys downlow that could rebound. Lebron, on the other hand, had to really do it alone. Super apparent this year.

Quote:
Ah, the old 'let me find a random video clip' trick.
Only posted it because you claimed he mostly makes passes/assists standstill, which was false, because he makes passes on the move just as much. Though, this whole thing is moot.

Lastly, we will agree to disagree.
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Old 06-16-2011, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,879,801 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
Must be a joke.
Williams: 44% (average)
Parker: mid guy/slasher
West: non-offensive weapon
Gibson: 41% (not good)


Not so much a joke. In 09/10( with Lebron on the Cavs):

Mo Williams:
42.9% 3pt 159 3 pointers made
Parker:
41.4% 3pt 108 3 pointers made
West: 32.5% 3pt shooting( Ok I'll give you that one)
Gibson:
47.7% 3pt 71 3 pointers made

You were saying about not surrounding him with shooters......?



Why bring Super Mario into this... The PG role for the most part is gone on most teams (not just Miami) due to all the combo guards. I can't name more than say 3-5 real point guards in the league. But that is completely different topic. Lebron's numbers should have gone down but they really didn't fluctuate that much. 1 superstar, 1 ball != 3 superstars, 1 ball. What I mean by that is each player can only touch the ball so much and each requires wanting to touch the ball so much. But yes, his assists shouldn't have change much since he had better players around him to dish to.


Lebron's assists didn't change much because 1) he had more legit scoring options and 2) his role didn't change a whole lot. He was still the primary playmaker, sometimes the role switched to Wade, but it was primarily him. The main point is, with Lebron and Wade as the chief playmakers, you don't need a traditional point guard. You need spot up shooters, similar to the role Paxson, Armstrong, and Kerr played on those Bulls teams. Why do you think Mike Bibby was brought onboard? For his playmaking?



Who was a major threat on those Cavs teams besides Lebron? The ones I just touch upon? Boozer was only there for one year. Let me tell you. No one was a threat but Lebron. They were a bunch of A) average, B) scrub, or C) too young (Hickson). The Bulls had Jordan, Pippen, and Kukoc. They also had amazing true shooters like Steve Kerr and Craig Hodges (which the Bulls under utilized). With guys downlow that could rebound. Lebron, on the other hand, had to really do it alone. Super apparent this year.

The only point you're making here, is that the other Cavs relied greatly on Lebron to get them scoring opportunities. That's not rocket science, bud. The main point is, Lebron had carte blache. Pippen played in a more restrictive offensive system as far as one guy amassing all the assists. And he was still good for 6-7 assists a game. And that was with Jordan averaging 6 assists himself. Not sure what's the point in debating that further, the stats speak for themselves here.


Only posted it because you claimed he mostly makes passes/assists standstill, which was false, because he makes passes on the move just as much. Though, this whole thing is moot.


I said I've noted Lebron tends to make CREATIVE/NIFTY passes moreso from a standstill position. Again, comprehension. I didn't say he wasn't capable of making passes on the go, I said Magic was better at the
creative/fancy passing on the move. Magic's creativity in terms of passing in a fast break setting exceeds Lebron's. Which, I'll have to spell out, is not saying Lebron ISN'T capable of doing that, just not as well as Magic.


Lastly, we will agree to disagree.

I came to that conclusion hours ago. Nice debating with ya.
Reply in bold.
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:31 PM
 
3,129 posts, read 5,308,960 times
Reputation: 1588
Lebron fanbois don't understand basketball. Its hilarious to read yet sad at the same time.
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:18 PM
 
6,560 posts, read 9,072,595 times
Reputation: 2837
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamiltonpl View Post
Jordan never lost a Finals.
Do you think Jordan would have won championships with the Cleveland teams Lebron had?
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:47 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
14,330 posts, read 19,543,632 times
Reputation: 18436
Default Lebron is overexposed

I'm sick to death of Lebron. He's everywhere. He hasn't won a championship. I don't find his play particularly exciting. His teams don't excite me. I don't care for his look or style of play. IMO, he hasn't played long or great enough to be compared to any great player.
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Old 06-17-2011, 05:43 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
420 posts, read 675,099 times
Reputation: 200
Lebron isn't even the best player on his team. Also, what the hell has he done that was so great that he is even being compared to anybody great.. let alone MJ?
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,946,077 times
Reputation: 1357
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Lexus View Post
I'm sick to death of Lebron. He's everywhere. He hasn't won a NBA championship. I don't find his play particularly exciting. His teams don't excite me. I don't care for his look or style of play. IMO, he hasn't played long or great enough to be compared to any great player.
Fixed your correction. He has won in Beijing Olympics and won High School state championship 3 times (2 in D3, 1 in D2).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMR23
Lebron isn't even the best player on his team. Also, what the hell has he done that was so great that he is even being compared to anybody great.. let alone MJ?
Lebron is the best player on his team. Stats+game footage proves that. Playing one great series (Wade) doesn't make up for the fact that Lebron did better than him all the other games of the year.

Secondly, anyone who tries to compare Lebron to Jordan just doesn't watch basketball. They are both great at the game but that is where the comparison ends. They both play a completely different game.

As for what Lebron has accomplished...
Let's see. Most dominant high school player, maybe ever.
- 3 Time State Champ, leading the team in all categories
- 3 Time All-USA First Team (first to ever do it as a sophomore)
- 3 Time Mr. Basketball of Ohio
- 2 Time Gatorade Player of the Year
- Naismith Player of the Year (2003)
- MVP of McDonalds All American Game, EASports, and Jordan Classic

In NBA, he is the most dominant current player. You play him 1-on-1 he burns 95% of the guys that defend him. Thus, most teams play the double against him, even on the new Miami Big 3 roster.
- 2x MVP (+4 other times where he was Top 5 in votes i.e. in the running)
- 2x All-Star MVP
- 1x Scoring Champ
- 5x All-NBA first team
- 3x All-NBA defense first team
- Rookie of the Year
- Gold at Beijing Olympics
- Cavs with Lebron = 61; Cavs without Lebron = 19
- Cavs prior to Lebron = 17; Cavs Lebron's Rookie Year = 35

Lastly, he is only 26 i.e. many years ahead of him.
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Old 06-18-2011, 12:33 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
420 posts, read 675,099 times
Reputation: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
Fixed your correction. He has won in Beijing Olympics and won High School state championship 3 times (2 in D3, 1 in D2).



Lebron is the best player on his team. Stats+game footage proves that. Playing one great series (Wade) doesn't make up for the fact that Lebron did better than him all the other games of the year.

Secondly, anyone who tries to compare Lebron to Jordan just doesn't watch basketball. They are both great at the game but that is where the comparison ends. They both play a completely different game.

As for what Lebron has accomplished...
Let's see. Most dominant high school player, maybe ever.
- 3 Time State Champ, leading the team in all categories
- 3 Time All-USA First Team (first to ever do it as a sophomore)
- 3 Time Mr. Basketball of Ohio
- 2 Time Gatorade Player of the Year
- Naismith Player of the Year (2003)
- MVP of McDonalds All American Game, EASports, and Jordan Classic

In NBA, he is the most dominant current player. You play him 1-on-1 he burns 95% of the guys that defend him. Thus, most teams play the double against him, even on the new Miami Big 3 roster.
- 2x MVP (+4 other times where he was Top 5 in votes i.e. in the running)
- 2x All-Star MVP
- 1x Scoring Champ
- 5x All-NBA first team
- 3x All-NBA defense first team
- Rookie of the Year
- Gold at Beijing Olympics
- Cavs with Lebron = 61; Cavs without Lebron = 19
- Cavs prior to Lebron = 17; Cavs Lebron's Rookie Year = 35

Lastly, he is only 26 i.e. many years ahead of him.
He's NOT better than D wade. One good series vs Chicago doesn't make up for lack of skills ie: he can't post of to save his life. All those high school accomplishments mean squat in thd NBA. The man also shuts down in clutch situations. And he is 0-2 in the finals.
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Old 06-19-2011, 03:06 PM
 
Location: In San Antonio
1,673 posts, read 2,721,745 times
Reputation: 1242
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMR23 View Post
He's NOT better than D wade. One good series vs Chicago doesn't make up for lack of skills ie: he can't post of to save his life. All those high school accomplishments mean squat in thd NBA. The man also shuts down in clutch situations. And he is 0-2 in the finals.
I'd say he is 0-0 in the finals, cause he never showed up.
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