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Old 07-07-2011, 04:25 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,203,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
David couldn't guard Howard, just like how he couldn't guard Shaq. Howard's pure size and domination would be unmatched if being able to play in that era in which they actually allowed big men to battle in the post (i.e. he would never be in foul trouble). It would be insane.
thats crazy talk, robinson played against huge guys, and athletic guys and was a beast in his own right. he doesnt get near the respect he deserves.

robinsons best single season was 93-94 when he went for 29.8 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 4.8 ASSISTS (who does howard assist?), 3.3 blocks, 1.7 steals, shooting 51% from the floor and 75% from the line.

howards best season so far is 22 ppg, 14 rpg, 1.4 apg, 2.4 blocks, 1.4 steals, 59 shooting, 60% ft.

howard is doing these numbers in his 7th season in one of the weakest big men eras ever. now if howard put up those numbers against david, hakeem, a prime shaq, even a prime duncan that would be more impressive but he puts them up in a league where andrew bogut is arguably the 2nd best center out there. howard would get eaten up because his fundamentals are TERRIBLE, and he has little more then athletic ability and muscle.

keep in mind that david robinson is one of 4 people to ever record a quad-double. he also scored 71 points, only 4 people have scored more.
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Old 07-07-2011, 05:51 PM
JL
 
7,355 posts, read 11,892,592 times
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Does anyone remember in the 80s when the playoff games were back to back? I remember the Celtics playing the Sixers on a Saturday and Sunday. That was great!! It would definitely test the teams' conditioning and depth.
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,882,827 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
Dwight #s are on the up, he was at 23 a game last season, I don't think it is outrageous to think he could get to 27/game. Next season he will be 26, and when Robinson was 26, he averaged 23/game. Robinson then peaked at 28 and steadily dropped his production over the next several seasons as far as ppg goes.

As far as blocks go, I know you have watched Dwight play, they call a lot of bad fouls on him - if the Admril had to deal with that his block #s would be down.
His career high was this season at 22.9. For comparisons sake, David Robinson scored 24.3.....as a rookie. While not impossible, it's going to take one hell of a monumental leap to get to 29.8, which was Robinson's career high in 1994. Robinson entered the league as a more natural scorer, Howard is primarily a rebounding/defensive machine that's taken 7 years just to score anything near what David Robinson was putting up in his first few seasons.

Robinson actually peaked at 29-30, if you're defining his peak as his MVP season, which was 1994-95. Two seasons later he was injured, and after that this guy named Tim Duncan joined the team. He was 33 by that point, and on the decline. Robinson in his prime was a beast, and as an overall player, better than Dwight Howard. The point should also be made that David Robinson at 26 was just completing his 2nd season, as he was a 24 year old rookie. Howard is going into his 8th season, at 26. And with that greater NBA experience at the same age, his numbers across the board still doesn't match David's at 26 as a sophomore player:

Dwight at 25/26 in 2010-11: 22.9 ppg, 14.1 rpg, 1.4 apg, 2.4 bpg, 1.4spg, 60% FT, 60% FG

Robinson at 25/26 in 1990-91: 25.6 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 2.5 apg, 3.9 bpg, 1.5 spg, 76% FT, 55% FG.

Howard has the edge in 2 categories, rebounds and field goal percentage. Robinson the edge in 5, scoring, assists, blocks, steals, and free throws. Pretty telling, and as I said 26 year old Howard is a more experienced NBA player than 26 year old Robinson, and playing against weaker competition than Robinson did.

Can't say I agree with your point about blocks, the Admiral had impeccable timing and simply had a knack for blocking shots. Howard's shotblocking is much more athletic based and the reason he's prone to fouls is because he commits alot of dumb fundamental mistakes, it's not simply a case of 'bad' fouls being called on him all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
David couldn't guard Howard, just like how he couldn't guard Shaq. Howard's pure size and domination would be unmatched if being able to play in that era in which they actually allowed big men to battle in the post (i.e. he would never be in foul trouble). It would be insane.

Howard isn't nearly as physically dominant as prime Shaq was. Newsflash: nobody could guard a prime Shaquille Oneal, so using that against David Robinson doesn't fly. The reality is that Howard has weak offensive fundamentals, it's only in his 7th season that he's showing some semblance of offensive skill beyond a dunk( thanks to a 80's/90's great, imagine that!). And even with his improved offense, he's still not scoring as much as David Robinson did in the 90's which was a much tougher era for bigman, with great centers and several other quality bigs. There isn't a center in the NBA today that's remotely close to David Robinson to give Howard any kind of challenge.

The 90's was the largest era in NBA history in terms of player heights, while Howard is a physical freak he won't have the same size advantage, as the 90's saw several 7 footers. Fundamentally, he's still behind the 90's greats so no, while Howard would hold his own, the only thing 'insane' is thinking he'd dominate the 90's period to the extent he does now. I can see him about the same level as a prime Alonzo Mourning, defender/shotblocker with a somewhat 'awkward' offensive game...maybe a bit better but a notch below Shaq/Hakeem/ Robinson. Reality is seeing the primes of the 90's great centers leaves me slightly less impressed with Howard's dominance in the current center-starved NBA.

And really, comparing Howard to Robinson, the Admiral was an incredible athlete as well. Robinson was a legit 7'1, chiseled frame, quick, mobile, agile, good leaper. Even if you want to give Howard a slight athletic advantage, the difference between the two's fundamentals( advantage Robinson) is larger than any 'athletic' advantage Howard may enjoy.

Last edited by Roman77; 07-07-2011 at 08:19 PM..
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Old 07-07-2011, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,947,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
thats crazy talk, robinson played against huge guys, and athletic guys and was a beast in his own right. he doesnt get near the respect he deserves.

robinsons best single season was 93-94 when he went for 29.8 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 4.8 ASSISTS (who does howard assist?), 3.3 blocks, 1.7 steals, shooting 51% from the floor and 75% from the line.

howards best season so far is 22 ppg, 14 rpg, 1.4 apg, 2.4 blocks, 1.4 steals, 59 shooting, 60% ft.

howard is doing these numbers in his 7th season in one of the weakest big men eras ever.
Robinson got to play in an era where big men got to fight for position, where they can actually try to block a shot without a offensive foul being called, etc. Howard gets called for everything. Hence, his blocks are not where they really should be.

One factor you didn't mention...
Dwight averages 35min
Robinson averaged 40.5 min in his best season
5 minutes is alot in gametime when numbers are involved.

David was 29 the year of his finest numbers
Dwight is only 25.

Quote:
andrew bogut is arguably the 2nd best center out there
Boy are you funny

Quote:
howard would get eaten up because his fundamentals are TERRIBLE, and he has little more then athletic ability and muscle.
He doesn't have a jumpshot but again he doesn't need one. When current centers can't guard him 1-on-1, all he needs his killer spin move/dunk and that crazy athletism.
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,882,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncopus99 View Post
One factor you didn't mention...
Dwight averages 35min
Robinson averaged 40.5 min in his best season
5 minutes is alot in gametime when numbers are involved.

In 1990-91, Robinson averaged 25.6 points, 13 rebounds, and 3.9 blocks in 37.7 minutes. Howard averaged 37.6 minutes this past season, and aside from rebounds Robinson's numbers are all higher. And last season is considered Howard's best year. The 90-91 season was Robinson's second season, so he wasn't near his prime yet. And in the same amount of minutes, Robinson's numbers are still better....despite being less experienced than what Howard is now.


David was 29 the year of his finest numbers
Dwight is only 25.

Robinson at 29 had played less seasons than Howard at 25. Robinson was a 24 year old rookie. The reality is that Howard's best season statistically across the board doesn't even match David Robinson's rookie stats. The admiral averaged 24.3 ppg, 12 rpg, 3.9 bpg and 1.7 spg in 36.6 minutes his rookie season. In a tougher era for bigmen.....


Boy are you funny

Name one center asides from Dwight playing today that's anywhere near the best of the 90's.

He doesn't have a jumpshot but again he doesn't need one. When current centers can't guard him 1-on-1, all he needs his killer spin move/dunk and that crazy athletism.

Current centers yeah, but that's not saying much is it?
Reply in bold.

Last edited by Roman77; 07-07-2011 at 08:47 PM..
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Old 07-07-2011, 08:35 PM
 
406 posts, read 504,323 times
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Dwight Howard and LeBron James are both in their primes right now. You can't compare guys that came into the league at 18-19 and those that came in at 21-22. LeBron will be 27 and this is going to be his 9th season(and no ring) and Dwight will be 26 and this will be his 8th season. Neither one is fundamentally sound and their downfalls will be much more sudden than say Dirk or Kobe.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:12 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,203,780 times
Reputation: 1982
apparently the fact that robinson had a 4 year commitment to the us navy (as an army vet myself i say respect to david but i have to knock him for going navy HA) so he "lost" 4 years of the nba experience after he was drafted. seems the spurs have ALWAYS draft and stashed even before pop.

bottom line, howard or any center/bigman cant compare, it is a dying art being big AND fundamental. to many bigs are trying to be "dirkish" and shoot the outside shot instead of learning how to use their size and building an inside game. duncan and shaq are arguably the last 2 "real" low post inside big men.

and yes IMO andrew bogut is the 2nd best center in the nba behind howard, that is very telling. behind bogut who do we have? yao? bynum? camby? perkins? how about nobody. guys like howard would learn real fast they better learn some post moves cause a spin/dunk only works on guys like horford and aldridge, guys who shouldnt be playing center if you ask me.
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Old 07-07-2011, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,367,309 times
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I'm pretty stoked to bump this thread the next 5-7 years as Dwight puts up beastly #s that are on par or better than the Robinson's.
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Old 07-08-2011, 03:37 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,882,827 times
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He may, or he may not. We can't predict the future, all I know is that Dwight at this present moment is not on David Robinson's level. And it's the present Howard that I'm comparing the Admiral to, not some hypothetical version that may or may not exist in 5 years. I'll only say that David Robinson was putting up across the board numbers as a rookie that Howard has yet to touch..... in a tougher era. And yes, that does need to come into the equation, regardless of it not being Howard's fault, the reality is he's dominating a weaker bigman era.

We'll see.....
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Old 07-08-2011, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,947,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
In 1990-91, Robinson averaged 25.6 points, 13 rebounds, and 3.9 blocks in 37.7 minutes. Howard averaged 37.6 minutes this past season, and aside from rebounds Robinson's numbers are all higher. And last season is considered Howard's best year. The 90-91 season was Robinson's second season, so he wasn't near his prime yet. And in the same amount of minutes, Robinson's numbers are still better....despite being less experienced than what Howard is now.
Actually Howard has a better FG%. But it should be since most of his points come from dunks.

Robinson played 4 years in college so really it was his 6th season.

Also, a factor you didn't comment on. The Teammates. Howard is on a team in which 7 players (I took off the two that were traded) averaged 10+ points. Robinson was on a team in which only 5 players averaged 10+ points. Terrible teammates = more opportunity for the superstar. Good teammates = having to share the ball.

Quote:
And really, comparing Howard to Robinson, the Admiral was an incredible athlete as well. Robinson was a legit 7'1, chiseled frame, quick, mobile, agile, good leaper. Even if you want to give Howard a slight athletic advantage, the difference between the two's fundamentals( advantage Robinson) is larger than any 'athletic' advantage Howard may enjoy.
I could post a picture of Robinson vs Howard but you know that Howard is way bigger (in build, not height) than Robinson. I am not denying Robinson as good overall Athlete... but being real, Howard has a way higher vert than Robinson and he is quicker on the movement. I could never envision Robinson taking part in a dunk contest. He is too proper.

Quote:
The 90's was the largest era in NBA history in terms of player heights, while Howard is a physical freak he won't have the same size advantage, as the 90's saw several 7 footers.
Today there are still plenty of 7 footers; Bynum, Pau Gasol, Marc Gasol, Brook, Biedrins, Hibbert, Kaman, Bogut, Bargnani, Hawes, McGee.

Like you stated in another comment, most of these guys aren't typical centers. They have jumpshots like Aldridge and Horford, which requires Howard to leave the paint to guard them. Robinson's decade all the centers played downlow and did post moves i.e. hook shots, 5-10 ft jumpers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas
duncan and shaq are arguably the last 2 "real" low post inside big men.
I guess you haven't seen guys like Pau Gasol and Kevin Love... There are plenty of guys still with great post games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas
apparently the fact that robinson had a 4 year commitment to the us navy
He only did 2 years of Navy service after college.
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