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I was having this discussion with friends and family over the weekend. We came up with a list, and a few of these names were challenged. I put those names in bold.
1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Dr. J
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Kobe
8. Russell
9. Shaq
10. Bird
It's hard to argue that Bird, Russell, or Shaq shouldn't be on this list. They have rings. But the argument was that Bill Russell was one-dimensional and dominated the sport at a time when it was not that competitive. The argument against Shaq is that he's not nearly as skilled as Olajuwon or Ewing even though he has rings. And the argument against Bird is that Dirk Nowitzki is currently better than Bird ever was, which means he has no business being on the list (assuming that Dirk is not a Top 10 player. hint: He's not).
For the most part, I agree with all 10 selections, but I wanted to hear what other people had to say about the list. How about Duncan or Karl Malone? Is there any space for Isiah? Jerry West? Elgin Baylor?
To me Shaq may be a stretch. I would also put Bird on there ahead of Erving as much as I love the Dr.
On your others Isiah and Jerry West would probably be ahead of Erving to - I would drop Erving and Shaq and put in Isiah and Jerry West.
The next tier is Erving, Malone, Shaq and at some point probably the idiot that brought his talents to S. Beach - he has a legimate shot to make the top 10, not there yet though.
But a pretty good list overall - MJ and Wilt were such different players and at this point so few of us got to see Wilt - one thing is Wilt played on what are considered the two best teams in the history of the NBA and had a significantly different role on both
The other Malone (Moses) may also get some noise in the top 15 or 20. I think he at times is under rated for all he accomplished
Also West is still the logo of the NBA - that has to count for something
This thread has me thinking how good some of the teams were in the early 80's Lakers/Pistons/Sixers/Celtics all had more stars than the Heat today at the same time.
Also on the comments of Nowitzki vs Bird; Yes Nowitzki is playing amazing but Bird was all that and more; truly
To me Shaq may be a stretch. I would also put Bird on there ahead of Erving as much as I love the Dr.
On your others Isiah and Jerry West would probably be ahead of Erving to - I would drop Erving and Shaq and put in Isiah and Jerry West.
I think it would be hard to put Isiah or Jerry West above Shaq. He has four rings, at least one MVP award, and has pretty much been in the All-Star game every season he's been in the League. Plus, he was completely dominant for 2 or 3 seasons. I don't think you could say that about Isiah or Jerry West. At no point could you say those two guys were clearly the best players in the League.
You also have to consider that Dr. J probably influenced the game in a way that many of these players never did. Forty years from now, when our grandsons are watching "old school" footage of the sport, they'll still be showing Dr. J flying around the backboard to make that layup. People modeled their games after Dr. J. I've never heard anyone cite Shaq as an inspiration as far as style of play goes.
i have the list a bit different, generally the same names, maybe different locations
1A. Jordan
1B. Wilt (the numbers dont lie)
2. Russell (i dont care who he didnt play against, he did play against wilt)
3. Magic (NOBODY made their team mates better like he did)
4. Kareem (he had good numbers but he played 20 years)
5. Oscar Robertson (triple double anyone)
6. Dr J (he innovated, but im not even sold on the 6 spot)
7. Hakeem (best post moves, and the best combination of offense, and defense since wilt)
8A. Duncan (so fundamentally sound he could hold his own with any player on this list in his prime, ANY of them)
8B. Shaq (he dominated against some of the best in the game in a time where big men where in their prime, wasnt the prettiest of players but only he could stop himself)
9. Bird (like Dr J an innovator and respect)
10. Kobe (i am reluctant to put him here, while a great player today i think his issues over shadow his skills, think if kobe where not a selfish prick how much better he could have been and how much better he could have made his teammates)
I'm going to list the ten best players I've actually seen play, which will omit names like Russell, Wilt, Oscar, West, and so on. My list takes into account individual accolades( awards, stats), ability/talent/skills, dominance in respect to their peers, longevity and team accomplishments:
Jordan
Magic
Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Duncan
Kobe
Garnett
Lebron( will likely move up over the coming years, before someone blows a gasket)
Wade( I think I'm forgetting someone here, so I stuck in Wade. I'd have to think a little more if someone else is more worthy at this spot)
The problem with doing an all-time list is there's so many factors that come into play: rules changes, pace, amount of games, number of teams, aka the 'era' argument, that it makes it extremely difficult to measure players from 40 years ago to today. It's unfair to everyone, really.
^^I didn't have the names in any particular order. That would have caused a fist-fight during an otherwise serene and peaceful weekend and certainly would create WW3 here.
It's hard to imagine a list without Hakeem, but we had to limit ourselves to just 10 slots. Given Shaq's numbers and his dominance, I think you have to give him the nod.
1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Dr. J
6. Oscar Robertson
7. Kobe
8. Russell
9. Shaq
10. Bird
I think your list is very good. I have no issues with it as far as people except for Dr. J, I would put Akeem in the list over him. Oscar Robertson is the only player in my list that does not have multiple titles. And I think we have all forgotten just how dominate Shaq was during those 3 titles he won in LA. we all say, O he had Kobe back then but Shaq was scoring 30-35+ a game with 10-15 rebounds... He was a beast!!! My list would look like this...
1. Jordan
2. Magic
3. Bird
4. Kareem
5. Kobe
6. Wilt
7. Shaq
8. Oscar
9. Russell
10. Akeem
I'm going to list the ten best players I've actually seen play, which will omit names like Russell, Wilt, Oscar, West, and so on. My list takes into account individual accolades( awards, stats), ability/talent/skills, dominance in respect to their peers, longevity and team accomplishments:
Jordan
Magic
Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Duncan
Kobe
Garnett
Lebron( will likely move up over the coming years, before someone blows a gasket)
Wade( I think I'm forgetting someone here, so I stuck in Wade. I'd have to think a little more if someone else is more worthy at this spot)
Wow. You'd put KG, Wade, and Lebron on your list over Karl Malone?
Ah the good ol days of the NBA
Larry Bird Choking Julius Erving | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/thesmokingsection/809547792/ - broken link)
Not sure if people remember this but Barkely came running off the bench after this exchange
Back when it was fine to hate the Celtics
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