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Old 07-21-2011, 11:37 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
so because yao had his govt and entire country behind him you discredit everything that was accomplished? why? russia tried it, the germans tried it as well, the chinese tried this for years and it took yao ming to actually accomplish the goals of ALL of those nations. see all of those countries have gone about "creating" athletes and their marketability yet ONLY yao ming was able to accomplish all of those countries goals. not yi, not wang zhizhi, not sun yue and not mengke bateer, only yao. hell i would venture that yao opened up the world to guys like yi and sun. (bold drafted BEFORE yao)
Also the Russians didn't try to open up with the US - they tried to compete with the US ..... Sabonis was drafted in '86, but there was no way that the Soviets were going to let their crown jewel play in the US .... not happening

I also don't think that was a big goal in modern germany either .... look at the path of Dirk and the path of Yao ....... night and day
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:44 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,202,672 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
Also the Russians didn't try to open up with the US - they tried to compete with the US ..... Sabonis was drafted in '86, but there was no way that the Soviets were going to let their crown jewel play in the US .... not happening

I also don't think that was a big goal in modern germany either .... look at the path of Dirk and the path of Yao ....... night and day
while certainly the paths of modern players vs those in history may differ, the intent, to open up the respective countries to the main stream world has not changed. before dirk, even before sabonis, eastern euro countries, asian countries, western euro countries even have all longed for the opportunity to "take the big stage". sure the path is not going to be exactly the same, the desire and end result was always the same.
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:46 AM
 
Location: spring tx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
No he didn't

Let's not be naive about the situation in China...........
what are you talking about yao absolutely opened up the world for those guys, hell YI was even marketed as "the next yao ming" that hasnt panned out obviously but then he isnt YAO MING.
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:52 AM
 
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yao didn't open anything .... everything is still controlled in exactly the same way .... remember the bickering about ensuing Yi would be able to play in front of a chinese audience and how pissed off China was about it?

If Herb Kohl wasn't a US Senator his career wouldnt' of started in Milwaukee - it took Kohl flying to China to deal with the association and plead why MKE could fit.
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Old 07-21-2011, 12:01 PM
 
Location: spring tx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
yao didn't open anything .... everything is still controlled in exactly the same way .... remember the bickering about ensuing Yi would be able to play in front of a chinese audience and how pissed off China was about it?

If Herb Kohl wasn't a US Senator his career wouldnt' of started in Milwaukee - it took Kohl flying to China to deal with the association and plead why MKE could fit.
you dont get it, because of yao, people in the nba ranks would not have even bothered to look at china. the chinese can call up who ever they want and say "oh yeah we got this 7' guy with an outside shot" and nba owners, managers and the like would just give them the same old "yeah ok thanks" like they did for decades before.

yaos 7'6" 310 lbs body along with being very skilled at that height opened up those same powers who think "yeah thats just wang zhizhi 2.0 pass, thanks for playing."

yaos size and skill as much as anything his country pushed opned up that market no ifs ands or buts. if you cant see it then i guess your blind to the reality that is world/international basketball.
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Old 07-21-2011, 12:22 PM
 
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BS

They would look at anyone who is 7'6" ......... even skinny dudes who spent more time on mormon missions than on the basketball court

Guys like Dirk, amongst others who have been in the league for a while, have opened up the NBA to the concept that not only can you find athletic big men - but guys from overseas can pan out, even bigs who play the post

That is what led them to take a guy like Wang - who had a fraction of the talent of Yao ..... or maybe they took him as a bargaining chip to get Yao ... who knows

In the same draft as Yao you had Nikoloz Tskitishvili @ #5, Nene @ #7, Nenad Krstic @ #24 and plenty of other foreign players both big & small .... it's the way the NBA was moving .... it's not like Brazil & Georgia had some great track record producing NBA talent

Pau Gasol was #3 in the 2001 draft - again, not a long lineage from Spain - but his success helped set the stage for all internationals (including Yao), Vlad Radmanovic @ #12, Okur @ #37 and a whole slew of internationals (including guys like DeSagana Diop who played HS ball here, but didn't grow up playing the game and had zero college)

In 2000 there were 3 centers who had never played in the US drafted in the first round

In 1999 you had 2 internationals in the 1st round - but a lot of people willing to take a chance in the 2nd (including the drafting of Wang)

In 1998 Dirk was one of 4 international first rounders - which included Vladimir Stepania (from Georgia ... his failure in the league didn't do anything to affect Tskitishvili later on)

Going back through the drafts you can clearly see as the college game diminished and the international game (including money spent on international scouting) improved there were more teams moving towards drafting HS kids and international players .... started with a couple in the 1st and some 2nd round gambles and eventually turned to being the place to grab in the 1st round

This was happening well before Yao
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Old 07-21-2011, 12:26 PM
 
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Although not nearly the player Yao was - from a contributor/huminitarian aspect what are your thoughts on Manute Bol?
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Old 07-21-2011, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,882,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
I just don't see it .... Buck Williams has been eligible for a while and has never really gotten much consideration .... lose a little defense (although buck was a top tier defender) and gain a lot more offense .... similar on the boards, successful teams, etc

How about Paul Silas - has had a little more consideration, but not in - much more rounded career than Ben Wallace

Charles Oakley? Jack Sikma?

On a lower scale AC Green? Horace Grant?
I just gave Ben Wallace's career achievements. How do those compare to Williams? Yeah you don't get as much offense, but Rodman just got voted into the HOF and it certainly wasn't because of his offense. While I would say Rodman is historically higher on the list than Wallace, I'd say Ben's accomplished enough. Look at a guy like Joe Dumars, solid player, solid contributor to 2 title teams, doesn't have gaudy numbers. Wallace, again, is a multiple time rebound and shotblock champ, an NBA champion, a multiple time all NBA and all defense selection, and a 4 time defensive player. There are players in the hall, who on the basis of oncourt achievement, have done less.

edit: I just wiki'd Buck. He was a rookie of the year and a 3 time all-star. If you want to simply do a bullet point list of accomplishments, Ben is FAR more accomplished and more decorated.
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Old 07-21-2011, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Cook County
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The HOF bar is way to low if Ben Wallace gets in.
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Old 07-21-2011, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,882,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
The HOF bar is way to low if Ben Wallace gets in.
Perhaps... the main point is you can look at the accomplishments of someone like Joe Dumars, and extrapolate that to figure out if Wallace gets in based on on-court achievement.
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