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Old 07-21-2011, 01:21 PM
 
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Rodman:
7.3 ppg, 13.1 rpb, 1.8 apg, .7 spg, .6 bpg .... 52% from the field, 58% from the line .... 5 of the top 8 rebouding seasons over the past 28 years ... highest rpg average over the past 28 years .... 5x champion, 2x D POY, 7x all defensive 1st team, 7x NBA rebounding champion

Williams:
12.8 ppg, 10 rpg, 1.3 apg, .8 spg, .8 bpg ... 55% from the field, 66% from the line ... 2x all defensive first team, 2x all D 2nd team, 2x nba FG % leader, rookie of the year, good college career, olympian, one of seven players to score 16k points & 13k boards - played in 2 NBA finals

Wallace:
6 ppg, 10 rpg, 1.4 apg, 1.3 spg, 2 bpg .... 48% from the field, 42% from the line ... 1x champion, 4x D POY, 5x all D 2st team, 1x all D 2nd team ....

A thing with awards is a lot is also dependent on who you are competing with, the position you play, etc ... this goes for any "all x" team selection as well ..... during Williams peak you had Moncrief 2X, Eaton 2x, Rodman 2x, Dikembe 3x, Hakeem 2x, David Robinson, Alvin Robertson, Michael Cooper & Michael Jordan ....... just because you didn't beat out those guys doesn't mean you weren't one of the better defenders

On the basketball reference HOF monitory (with > 135 being likely) - Wallace is a 90 .... less than rodman, less than williams, less than many of his contemporaries

I'm not saying williams should get in - just that he's fairly similar to a guy like wallace and other guys I mentioned who didn't get in .... personally I think Rodman was on the very low end of candidates as well


BTW - when dumars was elected he was a 2x champion, NBA Finals MVP, 6x all star, 4x all D 1st team, 1x all D 2nd team with an executive of the year title to boot ... not to mention he finished his college career as the 11th best scorer in NCAA history ... he also has a gold medal in the '94 world championships

Dumars averaged 16ppg on his career, but was a 20 ppg scorer during the heart of his career .... shot 46% from the floor, 84% from FT and 38% from 3 .... 2.2 rpg, 4.5 apg, .9 spg

Honestly though I think he's a marginal member as well ..... I think his front office work (remembering he was considered one of the leagues best executives when inducted) combined with a career where he played plus defense, contributed in a major way on offense and won a finals MVP put him over the top
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
Rodman:

A thing with awards is a lot is also dependent on who you are competing with, the position you play, etc ... this goes for any "all x" team selection as well ..... during Williams peak you had Moncrief 2X, Eaton 2x, Rodman 2x, Dikembe 3x, Hakeem 2x, David Robinson, Alvin Robertson, Michael Cooper & Michael Jordan ....... just because you didn't beat out those guys doesn't mean you weren't one of the better defenders

Yeah, and in Wallace's defensive player of the year prime he was competing with Duncan, Garnett, Ron Artest....not exactly scrubs themselves( maybe a few others I'm forgetting). It's all really subjective at the end of the day, isn't it? Voting criteria is pretty broad, so its anyone's guess why some get in and others don't. Bear in mind that the voting panel changes every so often, so someone who got voted in 20 years ago may not get voted in today. It's totally subjective...
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:32 PM
 
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Yep - I agree with that .... he was definitely a top tier defender though and I always loved watching him play
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:10 PM
JL JL started this thread
 
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Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
China didn't answer the door ... China was trying for decades to have it opened

You also have to look at the emergence of the NBA in places like Japan that predated Yao - the NBA was heading in that direction and China was dying to get into the action, to have their own global star and to be relevant in a mainstream sport
You're forgetting about David Stern. He has always stated about expanding the NBA fan base when he got the job a long time ago. If anything, David Stern is credited for expanding the game. This will be his legacy when he retires one day...hopefully sooner than later. :-) . It was the NBA that initiated it and who cares if the NBA went into Japan before Yao. They have no impact in Japan cause they don't have any impact player. They have their own "Yao Ming"...his name is Ichiro Suzuki. The MLB is kickin the NBA's ass over there. You also have to look at the NBA getting other Chinese players(Bateer and ZhiZhi) before Yao. They didn't do squat, but Yao was the jackpot the NBA finally,fortunately got that allowed them to prosper in China. You don't see David Stern or Kobe giving props to ZhiZhi or Bateer do you? Here is what they said:

“Yao built the bridge for all of us"--Kobe Bryant

"Yao is a key cultural milepost in our development,” Stern said in Beijing during last October’s China Games. “He gave the Chinese fans a huge reason to follow the NBA and become even more familiar with it and feel so good about themselves to have produced such a great player and person. Secondarily, it gave Americans a way to follow China through a different lens. It’s been wonderful.”

Bottom line is that the NBA is getting $$$ from a country of several billion. Money talks and Bulls**t walks.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:12 PM
 
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He still didn't create any of that ... he was the piece used by others .... not the piece that created
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:12 PM
JL JL started this thread
 
7,351 posts, read 11,883,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Yeah, and in Wallace's defensive player of the year prime he was competing with Duncan, Garnett, Ron Artest....not exactly scrubs themselves( maybe a few others I'm forgetting). It's all really subjective at the end of the day, isn't it? Voting criteria is pretty broad, so its anyone's guess why some get in and others don't. Bear in mind that the voting panel changes every so often, so someone who got voted in 20 years ago may not get voted in today. It's totally subjective...

Ben Wallace will make it to the HOF.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:17 PM
 
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With a ticket in hand maybe - or to support one of his former teamates potentially

enshrinement?!

not a chance
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:21 PM
JL JL started this thread
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
He still didn't create any of that ... he was the piece used by others .... not the piece that created
But if something was a piece of sh*t, would anyone use it? Bottom line is that he is part of the piece whether you think it was used by others or created by others. He ain't no piece of sh*t as far as the NBA is concerned..
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:23 PM
 
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he's no HOF player either............. he had an above average career for the time he played, but was never dominant, never elite

he falls short as both a player and always will

he currently falls short as a contributor .... maybe one day he'll round that out .... but not there today
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:31 PM
JL JL started this thread
 
7,351 posts, read 11,883,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
he's no HOF player either............. he had an above average career for the time he played, but was never dominant, never elite

he falls short as both a player and always will

he currently falls short as a contributor .... maybe one day he'll round that out .... but not there today
All i know is that he and Shaq were the best during Yao's short career. For his short tenure, he was good and like i said before, seeing some other players who made it in the HOF with Yao like stats, makes Yao's chances very good. My only reservation about Yao is his tenure, but the HOF makes no minimum # of minutes played/games requirement. I will be bumping this thread 5 yrs from now.
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