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Old 07-21-2011, 11:22 PM
JL JL started this thread
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
Not being a smart ass but do you have any proof of that other than "Yao is Chinese and there are over a billion Chinese people." And, yes I was paying attention the last decade, I don't remember any crazy basketball activity in China. All-Star votes is all I can come up with and that is not that significant (I can back that up).

I admit, I could be missing, a lot, but I would just like to be educated on the subject.
Orange,

There were some articles floating around a few weeks ago in the NY Times or something about financials, but i can't find it. I only have one though it didn't publish detailed financial numbers(breakdown of jersey sales, licensing, shoe deals, etc.) which i doubt the NBA or China will do, but just a general sense of what is going on. The article is a year old. I also heard that Stern and Yao and his management group will in the coming years push for international NBA teams though that will be a tall order. They would probably have to shorten the season or fly Concorde type aircraft for games if that were to happen. Jet lag would suck! I personally don't see that happening in the near future.

After two years, NBA China on steady course - SportsBusiness Daily | SportsBusiness Journal


I got that "NBA China" article from this article on Yahoo:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/bal...urn=nba-wp6340

Last edited by JL; 07-21-2011 at 11:43 PM..
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:10 AM
 
51,940 posts, read 41,806,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
he didn't do anything abroad

nothing

zilch

zero

nada

his career was less than dino radja
Next time read his bio link. We've already listed that stuff a number of times.
The World championship all tourney team springs immediately to mind as a pretty big honor.
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Old 07-22-2011, 07:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
Not being a smart ass but do you have any proof of that other than "Yao is Chinese and there are over a billion Chinese people." And, yes I was paying attention the last decade, I don't remember any crazy basketball activity in China. All-Star votes is all I can come up with and that is not that significant (I can back that up).

I admit, I could be missing, a lot, but I would just like to be educated on the subject.
Very fair question, also remember that this is just a tiny slice of the pie that IMO makes up Yao's overall HOF picture.

For starters, Yao carried the Chinese flag at the opening games in Beijing and carried the olympic flame into Tianamen square. For a team that had Zero chance of a medal that speaks VOLUMES as to his stature in China. (For comparison, the flame lighter was a 6x medalist) Check out an example of someone that didn't carry the opening ceremony flag....Guo Jingjing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a good general article from 5 years ago, note the Quote from Stern re China being their 2nd biggest market.
USATODAY.com - China embraces basketball

This gives a good idea of his stature and popularity....bottom line dollars and cents stuff.
Wow! Yao!

There are many other articles and quotes from guys like Dwight Howard etc. about the passion for the game there and how it went from obscure to arguably the top sport in China. Basically, China is going through their equivalent of the Bird-Magic or MJ era where the sport explodes into the mainstream. I remember my grandma watching MJ and the Bulls all the time.....speaks volumes.
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Old 07-22-2011, 08:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Next time read his bio link. We've already listed that stuff a number of times.
The World championship all tourney team springs immediately to mind as a pretty big honor.
Again - a worse FIBA career than Dino Radja .... "tournament teams" are a sham .... seems like you should at least play enough games to finish higher than 12th before being named to it

and you can't say that 12th is a great result for China ... because it isn't

I'm not sure if that was the year he got on the team or not .... mainly because China is absolutely irrelevant on the international scene .... if it was in the year that China finished 15th or 16th it would be even more of a joke ............ but it sure does well to sell shirts and keep marketing going.........
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Old 07-22-2011, 09:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
Again - a worse FIBA career than Dino Radja .... "tournament teams" are a sham .... seems like you should at least play enough games to finish higher than 12th before being named to it
Sweet Jesus, you don't even know how they structure the tournaments?

2002 FIBA World Championship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let's see, other guys on the tournament team included "shams" like Nowitzki and Ginobli.

I can respect a well thought out argument even if I may disagree with it....but you don't even know what you are talking about.
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Old 07-22-2011, 09:41 AM
 
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Dirk from the bronze medal German team? Manu from the silver medal Argentinian team?

How about Peja from the gold medal Yugoslavia team? Pero Cameron from the 4th place NZ squad?

Then again - when it comes to filling a center role the competition isn't going to be as fierce ... so congrats on finishing 12th out of 16th ......... here is your "all tournament team" and then China can bill the whole thing as a success and we can make revenue off them as well ... yay! win for us

In group stages China lost to Germany & the US and beat Alergia ... that was good enough to get them into the 2nd preliminary rounds

Against Germany Yao went for 16 & 5 ........ He went for 10 & 6 against the US

He made up for that against mighty Algeria though ... going for 38 & 13

Looks nice on a per game basis - 21 & 8 ........ however, he really had no impact ... they beat an awful Algeria team, he padded his stats and then did very little in their losses against real competition

In the 2nd preliminary round China went 0-3 losing to argentina (11 & 5), russia (13 & 9) & NZ (27 & 7) and didn't advance to the knockout stage

Then while teams that have success actually have to go on and play other difficult teams in the knockout stage - China was able to go and play in the 9th to 12th place playoffs ....... losing to such powers as Turkey (26 & 14) & Angola (27 & 15)

So where is this giant impact .... how does having 2 good performances in the "9th to 12th playoffs", which your team came in dead last, along with 2 good games out of 6 played in the two prelimanary rounds (where you won a single game) lead to an all tournament selection

it's a joke ..... 4 good games, 4 poor ones .... 1 win in 8 tries and not as stiff as competition as many teams would have to play

they played 1 less game than any of the top 8 finishers and played much weaker competition than they did

A team like Germany had to play Spain, Argentina & NZ while China was playing Turkey & Angola .... so yeah, it's probably best to compare the performances of Dirk & Yao as having the same weight & impact
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Old 07-22-2011, 12:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
Dirk from the bronze medal German team? Manu from the silver medal Argentinian team?

How about Peja from the gold medal Yugoslavia team? Pero Cameron from the 4th place NZ squad?

Then again - when it comes to filling a center role the competition isn't going to be as fierce ... so congrats on finishing 12th out of 16th ......... here is your "all tournament team" and then China can bill the whole thing as a success and we can make revenue off them as well ... yay! win for us

In group stages China lost to Germany & the US and beat Alergia ... that was good enough to get them into the 2nd preliminary rounds

Against Germany Yao went for 16 & 5 ........ He went for 10 & 6 against the US

He made up for that against mighty Algeria though ... going for 38 & 13

Looks nice on a per game basis - 21 & 8 ........ however, he really had no impact ... they beat an awful Algeria team, he padded his stats and then did very little in their losses against real competition

In the 2nd preliminary round China went 0-3 losing to argentina (11 & 5), russia (13 & 9) & NZ (27 & 7) and didn't advance to the knockout stage

Then while teams that have success actually have to go on and play other difficult teams in the knockout stage - China was able to go and play in the 9th to 12th place playoffs ....... losing to such powers as Turkey (26 & 14) & Angola (27 & 15)

So where is this giant impact .... how does having 2 good performances in the "9th to 12th playoffs", which your team came in dead last, along with 2 good games out of 6 played in the two prelimanary rounds (where you won a single game) lead to an all tournament selection

it's a joke ..... 4 good games, 4 poor ones .... 1 win in 8 tries and not as stiff as competition as many teams would have to play

they played 1 less game than any of the top 8 finishers and played much weaker competition than they did

A team like Germany had to play Spain, Argentina & NZ while China was playing Turkey & Angola .... so yeah, it's probably best to compare the performances of Dirk & Yao as having the same weight & impact
That's a completely different argument than you made just a few posts ago.
Why is that?
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Old 07-22-2011, 12:55 PM
 
Location: spring tx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
That's a completely different argument than you made just a few posts ago.
Why is that?

it is, and the fact that yao is surrounded by weak talent on his own team thus the focus of every other teams defense is being over looked as well.

i remember kevin garnet putting up huge numbers against weak teams when he was leading the timberwolves to mediocrity after the somewhat decent talent was given the boot or left. you have to remember this is a team sport so taking a guy like yao on a weak team against the usa, argentina, germany with more top level talent (usa and argentina both had nearly full teams of nba players) and then knocking him when he TEAM loses makes no sense. if this was wrestling and yao lost to guys from other countries then you could knock him for the loss, if it was a marathon or a sprint and he lost then you could knock him. in the end none of this will effect his HOF status as he will surely be voted in. maybe not 1st ballot but surely he will get in. if china had better players headed to the nba in the next 5-10 years THAT imo would hurt his chances but it is a fact he is the face of asian basketball if not sports as a whole, regardless of how he got to that level it is still fact. comparing yao to say pau gasol being from spain isnt the same, the spanish leagues have top level talent, the euro leagues do as well, argentina does as well (argentina has been ranked the 4th toughest basketball league in the world outside the usa The Top 5 Basketball Leagues Outside The United States | Dime Magazine (dimemag.com) : Daily NBA News, NBA Trades, NBA Rumors, Basketball Videos, Sneakers)

if zhizhi was the face of asian sports maybe we talk about him, maybe not or YI it doesnt mater, yao is the man in asian basketball and it is not the nba hall of fame so he gets in no doubt.
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Old 07-22-2011, 01:07 PM
 
51,940 posts, read 41,806,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
it is, and the fact that yao is surrounded by weak talent on his own team thus the focus of every other teams defense is being over looked as well.

i remember kevin garnet putting up huge numbers against weak teams when he was leading the timberwolves to mediocrity after the somewhat decent talent was given the boot or left. you have to remember this is a team sport so taking a guy like yao on a weak team against the usa, argentina, germany with more top level talent (usa and argentina both had nearly full teams of nba players) and then knocking him when he TEAM loses makes no sense. if this was wrestling and yao lost to guys from other countries then you could knock him for the loss, if it was a marathon or a sprint and he lost then you could knock him. in the end none of this will effect his HOF status as he will surely be voted in. maybe not 1st ballot but surely he will get in. if china had better players headed to the nba in the next 5-10 years THAT imo would hurt his chances but it is a fact he is the face of asian basketball if not sports as a whole, regardless of how he got to that level it is still fact. comparing yao to say pau gasol being from spain isnt the same, the spanish leagues have top level talent, the euro leagues do as well, argentina does as well (argentina has been ranked the 4th toughest basketball league in the world outside the usa The Top 5 Basketball Leagues Outside The United States | Dime Magazine (dimemag.com) : Daily NBA News, NBA Trades, NBA Rumors, Basketball Videos, Sneakers)

if zhizhi was the face of asian sports maybe we talk about him, maybe not or YI it doesnt mater, yao is the man in asian basketball and it is not the nba hall of fame so he gets in no doubt.
I agree with your points.

The initial argument I was referring too was so wrong as to be funny.

Quote:
"tournament teams" are a sham .... seems like you should at least play enough games to finish higher than 12th before being named to it
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Old 07-22-2011, 02:11 PM
 
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fast typing - enough games against good teams

obviously knew about the the losers bracket games - it was that entry that I read to see they came in 12th of 16th when I brought up poor international results

and again - what exactly did he do in the tournament that would make you think he had a HOF impact as a player

zip

zilch

nada
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