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Old 07-23-2011, 06:48 AM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 8,210,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancet71 View Post
What? Mugsy was a great defender and MUCH QUICKER than Nate.
not to mention NATE IS GARBAGE in a skin suit, nate can barely get off the bench for more then 10 minutes. sure he is strong and can jump high for a little guy but his game is garbage.
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Old 07-23-2011, 09:50 AM
JL
 
7,355 posts, read 11,903,709 times
Reputation: 7198
Bird would make Prince a Princess! He would post up on Prince all day long! Bumping and forcing Prince off balance to shoot fadeaways over his outstretched arms.
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:20 PM
 
8,266 posts, read 10,724,474 times
Reputation: 4774
Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
-Barkley was a gambler, but he had foot speed and a sense of the floor (i.e. leading to steals). I think he was a pretty good defender for his size.
Negative. Barkley did a lot of amazing things for his size but he was never a good defender. To say that he's a wash with Bruce Bowen on defense is absurd, how many appearances on the all-defense team did Barkley have?
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Old 07-23-2011, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Ro cha cha, NY
3,084 posts, read 4,218,071 times
Reputation: 5401
Can't "US" whitey's have one legend. Why are we trying to tear Larry down as if he was some bum? He was a great basketball player who could have played in any era. People forget part of what makes some of these players great. Larry lived on the court as a child in French lick, Indiana. He could shoot the ball from anywhere, but that wasn't even the best part of his game. His passing was unbelievable and he always knew where to be. He was quicker than many people give him credit for. He was also very sly as well as having one of the greatest drives to win. He was a winner. Anyone can try to reduce him to whatever, but those who know the game know how great he was. Is it no wonder, that greats like Magic Johnson had so much respect for him. Bird, Magic, MJ, Erving, Kareem, etc. These guys were one of a kind who could play any era.

I personally think the players today are soft. Talent has little to do with who is a better player. Vince Carter had all the talent in the world, but was either too stupid to just drive with the ball when the game is on the line or what. There was that desire to win that was missing. Which is the same desire missing from alot of these overpriced kids. And I'm sorry but I have a huge gripe with the NBA. Half the players don't even know simple fundamentals. These atheletes are pampered and over paid. They get paid first. That's part of the problem. Once they get that check few retain that drive to be the best. Many of them are happy just to make it in the league.. Lot's of guys in the league are talented. Look at Lebron. Never seen a player so given the basketball higher arch for doing nothing. The guy didn't even win with Wade. He's who some of you should be questioning how good is he really.

In the past, players had to play to get there accolades. Today, we give them to you before you earn them. This is a marketing tool, designed to sell. Many don't know the difference and confuse that type of praise as well they must be this and that. What makes Lebron so great? Disappears from almost every big game. Yet, it seems Lebron is only going to have to win one or two championships with Wade as your star. Yet, they'll be the Lebron vs the world argument. Lebron is better than this and that person. Let them win first, have a career and then be judged.

This is why this whole post is confusing. Larry already had his career. Had a legend career for himself and now he must prove he was some how worthy. Why? Because he couldn't dunk as hard as Lebron. How about we let these young guys have their careers before we annoint them king. Larry has already proved himself. All this other stuff is just flat out speculation and to some extent ignorance. While Lebron might be prettier scoring than Larry, --all in all two points is still two points.
No awards given for style.

Larry Bird is a flat out baller.
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Old 07-23-2011, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
1,693 posts, read 2,478,069 times
Reputation: 2722
Quote:
Originally Posted by supermanpansy View Post
Can't "US" whitey's have one legend. Why are we trying to tear Larry down as if he was some bum? He was a great basketball player who could have played in any era. People forget part of what makes some of these players great. Larry lived on the court as a child in French lick, Indiana. He could shoot the ball from anywhere, but that wasn't even the best part of his game. His passing was unbelievable and he always knew where to be. He was quicker than many people give him credit for. He was also very sly as well as having one of the greatest drives to win. He was a winner. Anyone can try to reduce him to whatever, but those who know the game know how great he was. Is it no wonder, that greats like Magic Johnson had so much respect for him. Bird, Magic, MJ, Erving, Kareem, etc. These guys were one of a kind who could play any era.

I personally think the players today are soft. Talent has little to do with who is a better player. Vince Carter had all the talent in the world, but was either too stupid to just drive with the ball when the game is on the line or what. There was that desire to win that was missing. Which is the same desire missing from alot of these overpriced kids. And I'm sorry but I have a huge gripe with the NBA. Half the players don't even know simple fundamentals. These atheletes are pampered and over paid. They get paid first. That's part of the problem. Once they get that check few retain that drive to be the best. Many of them are happy just to make it in the league.. Lot's of guys in the league are talented. Look at Lebron. Never seen a player so given the basketball higher arch for doing nothing. The guy didn't even win with Wade. He's who some of you should be questioning how good is he really.

In the past, players had to play to get there accolades. Today, we give them to you before you earn them. This is a marketing tool, designed to sell. Many don't know the difference and confuse that type of praise as well they must be this and that. What makes Lebron so great? Disappears from almost every big game. Yet, it seems Lebron is only going to have to win one or two championships with Wade as your star. Yet, they'll be the Lebron vs the world argument. Lebron is better than this and that person. Let them win first, have a career and then be judged.

This is why this whole post is confusing. Larry already had his career. Had a legend career for himself and now he must prove he was some how worthy. Why? Because he couldn't dunk as hard as Lebron. How about we let these young guys have their careers before we annoint them king. Larry has already proved himself. All this other stuff is just flat out speculation and to some extent ignorance. While Lebron might be prettier scoring than Larry, --all in all two points is still two points.
No awards given for style.

Larry Bird is a flat out baller.
your post tells me two things;
1) You clearly did not read the first post of this thread...this isnt to tear anyone down, especially not Bird. The guy earned his stripes as a baller and HOF guy...this is just a purely subjective discussion meant for fun only. Whether you think Bird could have succeeded today or not is really irrelevant. It's just the discussion that goes into the debate that matters. No need to bust an artery.

2) 'Whiteys Legend'??? you need to have a coke and a smile and CHILL OUT!!!

Let me frame the discussion for you since you have missed most of the point...the question is not whether todays players are better than Bird...the question is, if you took Bird out of the 80s and put him on a typical NBA team today, would he still succeed to the level that he did in the 80s? If instead of Boston full of fellow Hall of Famers he was on the 2006 Cleveland team instead of Lebron...where he had little help and had to face the other teams top defenders (guys like Tayshaun, Kirilenko, Bowen, Lebron etc) would he still be able to get his points?

Last edited by biafra4life; 07-23-2011 at 06:08 PM..
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Old 07-23-2011, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
1,693 posts, read 2,478,069 times
Reputation: 2722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancet71 View Post
What? Mugsy was a great defender and MUCH QUICKER than Nate.

Half right half wrong...Mugsy was much quicker than Nate, but Muggsy as a great defender??? ummm...well he got steals as a pesky little guy but no, he wasnt on the floor for his shutdown capabilities...that said I thought he has so far been a better player than Nate...Nate could and should be a whole lot better than he is...but I get the feeling he values his dunk contest win more highly than he does playing the right way...but he's relatively young so he can still turn things around...
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Old 07-23-2011, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
1,693 posts, read 2,478,069 times
Reputation: 2722
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw View Post
Negative. Barkley did a lot of amazing things for his size but he was never a good defender. To say that he's a wash with Bruce Bowen on defense is absurd, how many appearances on the all-defense team did Barkley have?

Agree with this...Barkely was NOT a great defender...he never really bothered with it when he was younger, and by the time he was older he had gained too much weight and lost some of his athleticism...
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Old 07-23-2011, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
1,693 posts, read 2,478,069 times
Reputation: 2722
One factor that I havent seen discussed thus far but I think is a critical factor is this;

On Bird's Celtics teams, he played with at least 4 or 5 other Hall of Famers, so you couldnt really focus your entire defense on Bird and leave McHale (IMO the most underrated player from that era), DJ, Parish and Walton open...heck even Danny Ainge was nice...so you really had to pick your poison...fast forward to today, and outside of Miami, who can make that claim? most teams have at most 1 or 2 legit all stars, or maybe 1 franchise player and a decent sidekick then a bunch of role players/scrubs.

So could Bird succeed today if he had crappy teammates, had the other teams best defender plus help...could he put up his numbers...if you put him in lebrons place on those Cleveland teams, could he have done better?
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Old 07-23-2011, 07:26 PM
 
8,266 posts, read 10,724,474 times
Reputation: 4774
Quote:
Originally Posted by supermanpansy View Post
Can't "US" whitey's have one legend.
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Old 07-23-2011, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,186,505 times
Reputation: 2731
Quote:
Originally Posted by slackjaw View Post
Negative. Barkley did a lot of amazing things for his size but he was never a good defender. To say that he's a wash with Bruce Bowen on defense is absurd, how many appearances on the all-defense team did Barkley have?
Barkley has too many steals to say he wasn't a good defender. And his defensive rebounding. Its not like he was a scrub. A better comparison to Bowen, would be like pippen.

LOL, about athleticism. Here's a great example (fast foward to 3:00)


‪NBA Dunk Contest‬‏ - YouTube

How many guys were jumping like that in the 80's, that's what you would have expected from Nique or Jordan.

-Put bird on the cavs, I dont think he would have done much better than lebron. Even Jordan on the cavs. It's hard for one guy to lift up 11 players.
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