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Old 07-14-2011, 12:05 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,182,008 times
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Short answer- Absolutely! I hated him as a Celtic but Bird had both talent and intangibles that would translate to any time period
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Old 07-14-2011, 02:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
The funny thing with Russell is, he's 6'9 and 220. That's like your average small forward now. Here's where the argument gets tricky when discussing transferring players across eras; if Russell had come along today, he likely would have developed an entirely different skillset, and played a different position. Or, he'd have been a Ben Wallace-type, Wallace was about 6'7( listed at 6'9) but was built like a tank.
Keep in mind too that verticle HEIGHT is meaningless opposed to vertical REACH.

The guys with freakish long arms have a huge advantage. (Pippen is one of the poster childs)

Barkley gave up a lot of height to Horace grant and ate him alive rebounding.
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Old 07-14-2011, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Keep in mind too that verticle HEIGHT is meaningless opposed to vertical REACH.

The guys with freakish long arms have a huge advantage. (Pippen is one of the poster childs)

Barkley gave up a lot of height to Horace grant and ate him alive rebounding.
Indeed, and this is why Dwyane Wade plays 'bigger' than his height of 6'3.
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Old 07-14-2011, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
3,849 posts, read 3,973,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
The funny thing with Russell is, he's 6'9 and 220. That's like your average small forward now. Here's where the argument gets tricky when discussing transferring players across eras; if Russell had come along today, he likely would have developed an entirely different skillset, and played a different position. Or, he'd have been a Ben Wallace-type, Wallace was about 6'7( listed at 6'9) but was built like a tank.
Yup, probably alot like Ben Wallace. Very nice player but not in the conversation for all-time best centers.
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Old 07-14-2011, 06:00 PM
 
16,528 posts, read 20,986,524 times
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Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Short answer- Absolutely! I hated him as a Celtic but Bird had both talent and intangibles that would translate to any time period
Kidphilly is right. Bird had the ultimate respect from his teammates as well. Ultimate respect. When I think of the cream of the crop of NBA players from the decade of the 1980's, I think of Magic Johnson and Larry Bird.
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Old 07-14-2011, 06:26 PM
 
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I have always had great respect for Bird. Bird was a team player, blessed with the eyes that could see the entire court as he ran.

Whenever he had the ball every opponent had better wake up because he could find the open man or just pop it from anywhere.

The man was great. And I am a die-hard Laker fan. Take that back, I was from the time of the 1972 Lakers up until the late 80s.
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Old 07-14-2011, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
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I think some of you are misunderstanding my post here...I'm not questioning LB's accomplishments during his time, I know he was respected by all and he WAS legit, screw what Isaiah had to say...but my point remains, could he succeed if you moved him to the present day? So to simplify it further, if you put him in Paul Pierce's place for the Boston Celtics from 2008-2011 would the Celtics have been better or worse? and I'll make it even easier; take Bird at his peak, so that would be 86. Take the 86 Bird and put him in the starting small forward position for the Celts in 2008 going forward. Are the Celts now better or worse?

Sorry y'all but I still say worse. Bird vs Lebron??? as much as everyone bags on LBJ (including myself) I still think LBJ would have torn Bird a new one on BOTH ends of the court, Cleveland would have handled Boston, and the Decision never happens. Someone mentioned that there were athletic forwards back in Bird's day...true...and if you were worth ANYTHING as a forward in the 80s, you booked yourself a minimum of 25 points whenever Boston came to town. Worthy, Wilkins, all of them.

And here's the thing; if there is one position in the NBA that has changed incredibly over the years, it is the swing position (shooting guard/small forward). All the other positions havent changed THAT much...Centers were 7 feet tall in 1980, they are about the same today. Point guards were all under 6-4 barring magic...that is still the case today. But small forwards? in 1980, 6-5 was about the average height of a small forward. Heck Charles Barkley played the power position at 6-4. Fast forward to 2011, and it's more like 6-9. Think of all the small forwards today...Durant, LBJ, Danny Granger, Luol Deng, Josh Smith, Carmelo...all 6-8 or taller. And with that increase in height, incredible athletic ability that was unseen back in 1980. You dont think Lebron, or Carmelo, or Durant could dominate in 1980? I think Bird would get burned. Intangibles and basketball IQ wont help you a whole lot when Josh Smith is using that 7 foot wing span and 40 inch vertical to block your shot...
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Earth
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This is the classic 'the players are more athletic today, so they're better' argument. I invite you to YouTube James 'flight' white. And once you've finished wiping the drool off your chin from his dunks, consider that this guy is probably packing bags somewhere, or whatever...... But he's not in the NBA. Just because today's athletes hold an athletic advantage over Bird,does not mean that they're any more likely to dominate him than the players who held athletic advantages from yesteryear. Again, Bird's advantage was his mind, his skills, his fundamentals. This will carry him in this era as it did his era. Would Lebron and Melo put up numbers on him? Sure, Dominique put numbers on him too, but you best believe Bird gives them numbers back.

And yes, it's the intangibles that Bird excelled at, that led to winning basketball. For all of Lebron's physical gifts, he hasn't proven himself to really have that 'it' factor, has he? So, matched against each other, yeah Lebron may get the statistical edge on him, but who you putting money on to make plays when it really counts, to do the little things that make the difference between winning and losing?

Here's what I'm struggling to understand from your argument. From your first post, you believe that John Stockton would dominate today. Yet Stockton would have the same athletic disadvantages today at the point guard spot, that Bird would have at the small forward position. What is your basis for your conclusion that Stockton still dominates, but somehow Bird gets creamed by the Lebrons and the Durants?
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:52 PM
 
51,993 posts, read 41,835,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biafra4life View Post
I think some of you are misunderstanding my post here...I'm not questioning LB's accomplishments during his time, I know he was respected by all and he WAS legit, screw what Isaiah had to say...but my point remains, could he succeed if you moved him to the present day? So to simplify it further, if you put him in Paul Pierce's place for the Boston Celtics from 2008-2011 would the Celtics have been better or worse? and I'll make it even easier; take Bird at his peak, so that would be 86. Take the 86 Bird and put him in the starting small forward position for the Celts in 2008 going forward. Are the Celts now better or worse?

Sorry y'all but I still say worse. Bird vs Lebron??? as much as everyone bags on LBJ (including myself) I still think LBJ would have torn Bird a new one on BOTH ends of the court, Cleveland would have handled Boston, and the Decision never happens. Someone mentioned that there were athletic forwards back in Bird's day...true...and if you were worth ANYTHING as a forward in the 80s, you booked yourself a minimum of 25 points whenever Boston came to town. Worthy, Wilkins, all of them.

And here's the thing; if there is one position in the NBA that has changed incredibly over the years, it is the swing position (shooting guard/small forward). All the other positions havent changed THAT much...Centers were 7 feet tall in 1980, they are about the same today. Point guards were all under 6-4 barring magic...that is still the case today. But small forwards? in 1980, 6-5 was about the average height of a small forward. Heck Charles Barkley played the power position at 6-4. Fast forward to 2011, and it's more like 6-9. Think of all the small forwards today...Durant, LBJ, Danny Granger, Luol Deng, Josh Smith, Carmelo...all 6-8 or taller. And with that increase in height, incredible athletic ability that was unseen back in 1980. You dont think Lebron, or Carmelo, or Durant could dominate in 1980? I think Bird would get burned. Intangibles and basketball IQ wont help you a whole lot when Josh Smith is using that 7 foot wing span and 40 inch vertical to block your shot...
LMAO. "unseen athletic ability back in 1980". Seriously. Bird won in last MVP in 1986....when guys like oh....Hakeen, Dominique, Magic etc. were playing.

Seriously, WTH are you talking about?
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Wylie, Texas
1,690 posts, read 2,473,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
LMAO. "unseen athletic ability back in 1980". Seriously. Bird won in last MVP in 1986....when guys like oh....Hakeen, Dominique, Magic etc. were playing.

Seriously, WTH are you talking about?


I'm talking specifically about Bird's position, the small forward. If you actually read my post you would see that I said that all the other positions are relatively unchanged. It's the 3 spot that has changed. Take a guy like Josh Smith. I think we can all agree that he is a decent, but not top level player. He's got great hops, great shot blocker, can guard 3s or 4s, can handle the ball like a guard, ok passer, and can shoot the three. How many 6-9 guys in 1980 had his skill set? Most guys his height would be plodding power forwards banging in the paint. And this is just JOSH SMITH...never mind Durant, or Carmelo.

If you're trying to imply that in 1986 Bird was playing against the type of athletes we have today, then I have to ask WTH are YOU talking about????
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