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Old 07-17-2011, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,179,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox Harrington View Post
Again, being the most athletic player does not mean being the most successful.

I once again introduce into evidence the 2011 NBA Finals. Which team had the better athletes? Which team won?
I don't know if the 2011 Finals are a great example of athletiscm failing to win.

-You had a mavericks team that's been intact for YEARS. Mark Cubans fanaticism and drive to win was certainly a factor. If cuban owned the heat, would they be more likely to win? Probably.

Cuban's commitment to his team was definitely a plus + factor.

-The heat are still a young team and inexperienced. Analogous to the bulls when they had Jordan in 1990, Horace Grant, etc...but they weren't "quite" there in terms of winning, like in 93.
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Old 07-17-2011, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,878,906 times
Reputation: 1802
[quote=Black Jack22;20052718

Yall act like Bird was the greatest of all time.

Sure he would be better than most today but I don't think he would be the best in the whole league.

[/quote]

1). No-one in here has proclaimed him the GOAT.

2) No-one in here has said he'd be the best in the league today.
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Old 07-17-2011, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
2,295 posts, read 2,148,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
I don't know if the 2011 Finals are a great example of athletiscm failing to win.

-You had a mavericks team that's been intact for YEARS. Mark Cubans fanaticism and drive to win was certainly a factor. If cuban owned the heat, would they be more likely to win? Probably.

Cuban's commitment to his team was definitely a plus + factor.
What? It is the perfect example.

Cuban? The OWNER? Seriously?

Show me another NBA title in history that can be attributed to the owner.

Anyway, if an owner can overtake athleticism, the anti-Bird argument is DEFINITELY dead in the water.
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Old 07-17-2011, 09:51 PM
JL
 
7,351 posts, read 11,880,681 times
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Bird woulda been a baller even today. He was a great shooter from anywhere on the court. The midrange jumper has been lost in today's game. He could shoot the 3s and midrange from anywhere. He had a quick release and had the knack to find ways to get open and shoot over guys bigger than him whether stationary or on the move. He was a crafty player since he wasn't really athletic.
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Old 07-18-2011, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,179,162 times
Reputation: 2726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox Harrington View Post
What? It is the perfect example.

Cuban? The OWNER? Seriously?

Show me another NBA title in history that can be attributed to the owner.

Anyway, if an owner can overtake athleticism, the anti-Bird argument is DEFINITELY dead in the water.
-The heat were just assmbled. They had the worst record in the NBA only a few years ago.

You need a certain amount of chemistry to win championships, plus they took it to 6 games, its not like they got swept. Thats why I give Cuban plus points. How many owners would have tried to re-assemble their core group after going deep in the playoffs every year?

They kept getting *this* close.

-They got into the 2nd or 3rd round of the western conference playoffs for much of the 2000's.

To keep the core group intact of dirk, terry, kidd, that takes some leadership. Cuban was willing to do *whatever* it took to win. Some ownership is completely different...i.e. Donald Sterling and the Clippers.


**Back to Bird**

Name 2 or 3 (or more) other players from the 80's around Birds height and athletic ability who would do well in todays game? Where would Tom Chambers be, or Schrempf, or even James Worthy?

Bird in the 80's was going up against your typical small forward like Bernard King. Relatively small and undersized by todays standards. Rudy Gay or Smith would fly over King.
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Old 07-18-2011, 09:41 AM
 
Location: So California
8,548 posts, read 8,876,057 times
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Those 80's guys would adapt to todays NBA, they'd be just fine.
Bird would dominate just like he did then.
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Old 07-18-2011, 10:39 AM
 
9,028 posts, read 16,426,519 times
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Are you trying to suggest Tom Chambers wasn't athletic?!

If so you might as well leave now .... that could be one of the dopiest comments i've read on here .... chambers was the type of guy some are claiming didn't exist back then .... a rangy 6'10" forward who could pop the three and cut to the rim



Detlef wasn't as athletic as chambers - not by any stretch ... but he would still be very servicable today (just like he was then) .... another 6'10" guy who could shoot the ball, get to the line, etc .... an all around solid player, but not one who relied on playing the block ...... 6'10" guys who can shoot the ball and defend will have a place in the league .... at worst he'd slide to be a guy like Trevor Ariza, who is still a solid pro (which is what detlef was for most of his career - a couple stand out seasons, but mainly his value was as a superb 6th man)
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Old 07-18-2011, 10:58 AM
 
51,901 posts, read 41,783,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
Are you trying to suggest Tom Chambers wasn't athletic?!

If so you might as well leave now .... that could be one of the dopiest comments i've read on here .... chambers was the type of guy some are claiming didn't exist back then .... a rangy 6'10" forward who could pop the three and cut to the rim



Detlef wasn't as athletic as chambers - not by any stretch ... but he would still be very servicable today (just like he was then) .... another 6'10" guy who could shoot the ball, get to the line, etc .... an all around solid player, but not one who relied on playing the block ...... 6'10" guys who can shoot the ball and defend will have a place in the league .... at worst he'd slide to be a guy like Trevor Ariza, who is still a solid pro (which is what detlef was for most of his career - a couple stand out seasons, but mainly his value was as a superb 6th man)
^^^^

However, remember...these are the guys questioning the athleticism of Nique....whom most people know was pretty much up there with Jordan in terms of athleticism.

Pictures, you tube footage etc. are just ignored.
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,878,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
^^^^

However, remember...these are the guys questioning the athleticism of Nique....whom most people know was pretty much up there with Jordan in terms of athleticism.
Dominique Wilkins would stand out today athletically....the guy was a freakin beast( and he's a 9th/10th man on the team I drafted a few weeks ago ). All the great athletes like Jordan, Wilkins, Drexler from 20 years ago would still drop jaws today. While there may be *more* athletic players today, the very best athletes I mentioned above would still be great in this era. Prime Shawn Kemp? Come on now....that guy was SICK!!
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:05 AM
 
51,901 posts, read 41,783,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
Some of the perception is reality. Josh Smith, is already the youngest player to reach 500 blocks and 1,000.

The wingspan issue is very legitimate. How many guys like Tayshaun prince were in the league when Bird was playing? Not very many. Not like now.

Guys with strength can run much faster now...the whole training, conditioning aspect has changed. Who were the most athletic forwards in the 80's? Tom Chambers? Detlef Schrempf? Compare that to Dwight Howard. Some of the guys from the 80's would get run out of the building today.

-I think Isiah and Nash's court vision and playmaking abilities are very similar. KJ and Hardaway were fast, I dont know if you'd call them explosive by todays standards...i.e. derrick rose, or a guy who almost jumps out of the building. Mark price wasn't explosive.
You mean the unathletic guy that is about to crush his layrnx on the rim in the posted picture?
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