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Old 10-22-2011, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
8,163 posts, read 13,196,468 times
Reputation: 2488

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
That's why I said you'd have to assume someone(s) would be gone. Let's hypothesize and say Noah's gone if they get Howard: A lineup of Howard, Boozer, Deng, Rose and 'whoever' at shooting guard is still one hell of a lineup. Howard will give you 13 rebounds and 3 blocks, along with 20 points. He automatically adds another dynamic to the Bulls offense that they didn't have before, and that's a dominant post presence. No he's not the hustle player that Noah is, but it's a no-brainer that Howard's presence( instead of Noah) upgrades that Bulls frontline overall.

Heck, Noah is a valuable commodity: trading him would land them some decent talent. Trade off Boozer too while they're at it( don't know who would want to take on his salary, mind you), and start Howard, Taj Gibson, Deng( one HELL of a defensive frontline), Rose, and see if they can net a few more wing scorers by trading away Noah and Boozer. But really, a Howard-Rose combo is potentially lightning in a bottle.
No one wants Boozer's contract and the Seattle teams with Kemp/Schrempf/Payton and Portland teams just before Pippen came over proved that a stacked lineup doesn't always win.
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Old 10-22-2011, 08:27 PM
JL
 
7,355 posts, read 11,896,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancet71 View Post
No one wants Boozer's contract and the Seattle teams with Kemp/Schrempf/Payton and Portland teams just before Pippen came over proved that a stacked lineup doesn't always win.
Keep in mind those Seattle and Blazer teams didn't have a dominating center like Howard. With Rose and Howard, i see it very difficult for any team out there to beat them especially with Rose improving his perimeter shooting. We know his penetration comes easy and he can go to the hole and finish or dish off to Howard once he gets in the paint. The inside-outside scenario is downright scary for opponents. The combo of Howard and Rose, imo, is more deadly than the Wade-LBJ one.
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Old 10-22-2011, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Here or There
3,963 posts, read 2,515,467 times
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^^ Oh, come on, the Blazers had Kevin Duckworth!

(Im kidding)
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Old 10-23-2011, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,883,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancet71 View Post
No one wants Boozer's contract and the Seattle teams with Kemp/Schrempf/Payton and Portland teams just before Pippen came over proved that a stacked lineup doesn't always win.
I'm aware of both points. On the second, I've never said throwing together a bunch of talented players always results in a win. I just have no reason to think a Howard-Rose combo wouldn't work. But there are a few examples of stacked teams winning, like the 80's Celtics with Bird, Mchale, Parish, Dennis Johnson, Ainge and Lakers with Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Scott, Copper etc. The 80's Pistons were pretty stacked, as was the 60's Celtics ( 5 HOF players on that squad) and the early 80's Sixers. Obviously we can come up with a few examples of stacked teams that didn't quite pan out, but really a needless exercise. There's plenty of examples on both sides of the fence.

Player personalities and skills need to mesh well when you're talking about having several talented players on one squad. There also needs to be an established pecking order. There was no doubt that Larry Bird and Michael Jordan were 'the' guy on their teams. Kareem was number one on the Lakers until he got too old, at which point Magic took over. Shaq was the clear leader of the early 2000 Lakers; the team split when Kobe became too good a player in his own right and didn't want to play a secondary role. Wade and Lebron had the issue this year of figuring out who's the number one guy, which led to chemistry problems there, plus the fact that they're effectively the same player; Ball dominant, streaky shooters, slashers, poor off the ball. One of the two is going to have to decide to learn off the ball skills.

People were quick to compare the Wade-Lebron combo to Jordan-Pippen, difference is while the latter duo both shared some of the same talents, most importantly both could play off the ball which made them a far more versatile duo. And there was certainly no issue of who had the alpha role.
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Old 10-23-2011, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,883,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL View Post
Keep in mind those Seattle and Blazer teams didn't have a dominating center like Howard. With Rose and Howard, i see it very difficult for any team out there to beat them especially with Rose improving his perimeter shooting. We know his penetration comes easy and he can go to the hole and finish or dish off to Howard once he gets in the paint. The inside-outside scenario is downright scary for opponents. The combo of Howard and Rose, imo, is more deadly than the Wade-LBJ one.
Agreed 100%.
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Old 10-23-2011, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
8,163 posts, read 13,196,468 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
I'm aware of both points. On the second, I've never said throwing together a bunch of talented players always results in a win. I just have no reason to think a Howard-Rose combo wouldn't work. But there are a few examples of stacked teams winning, like the 80's Celtics with Bird, Mchale, Parish, Dennis Johnson, Ainge and Lakers with Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Scott, Copper etc. The 80's Pistons were pretty stacked, as was the 60's Celtics ( 5 HOF players on that squad) and the early 80's Sixers. Obviously we can come up with a few examples of stacked teams that didn't quite pan out, but really a needless exercise. There's plenty of examples on both sides of the fence.

Player personalities and skills need to mesh well when you're talking about having several talented players on one squad. There also needs to be an established pecking order. There was no doubt that Larry Bird and Michael Jordan were 'the' guy on their teams. Kareem was number one on the Lakers until he got too old, at which point Magic took over. Shaq was the clear leader of the early 2000 Lakers; the team split when Kobe became too good a player in his own right and didn't want to play a secondary role. Wade and Lebron had the issue this year of figuring out who's the number one guy, which led to chemistry problems there, plus the fact that they're effectively the same player; Ball dominant, streaky shooters, slashers, poor off the ball. One of the two is going to have to decide to learn off the ball skills.

People were quick to compare the Wade-Lebron combo to Jordan-Pippen, difference is while the latter duo both shared some of the same talents, most importantly both could play off the ball which made them a far more versatile duo. And there was certainly no issue of who had the alpha role.
Key words from my post: Doesn't always win...I didn't say, never wins.
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Old 10-23-2011, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
8,163 posts, read 13,196,468 times
Reputation: 2488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
I'm aware of both points. On the second, I've never said throwing together a bunch of talented players always results in a win. I just have no reason to think a Howard-Rose combo wouldn't work. But there are a few examples of stacked teams winning, like the 80's Celtics with Bird, Mchale, Parish, Dennis Johnson, Ainge and Lakers with Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Scott, Copper etc. The 80's Pistons were pretty stacked, as was the 60's Celtics ( 5 HOF players on that squad) and the early 80's Sixers. Obviously we can come up with a few examples of stacked teams that didn't quite pan out, but really a needless exercise. There's plenty of examples on both sides of the fence.

Player personalities and skills need to mesh well when you're talking about having several talented players on one squad. There also needs to be an established pecking order. There was no doubt that Larry Bird and Michael Jordan were 'the' guy on their teams. Kareem was number one on the Lakers until he got too old, at which point Magic took over. Shaq was the clear leader of the early 2000 Lakers; the team split when Kobe became too good a player in his own right and didn't want to play a secondary role. Wade and Lebron had the issue this year of figuring out who's the number one guy, which led to chemistry problems there, plus the fact that they're effectively the same player; Ball dominant, streaky shooters, slashers, poor off the ball. One of the two is going to have to decide to learn off the ball skills.

People were quick to compare the Wade-Lebron combo to Jordan-Pippen, difference is while the latter duo both shared some of the same talents, most importantly both could play off the ball which made them a far more versatile duo. And there was certainly no issue of who had the alpha role.
That's the problem with the Wade-Lebron combo. Both want to be the go-to-guy but considering Wade was already there, it's him, and Lebron can't handle being a 1A and not the #1. Pippen knew he was secondary to Jordan, no questions asked. I do believe Howard and Rose could be a great combo and I do think they could have great success and their roles would play out easier, but I guess we have to wait and see. NY will be making a huge push for him and CP3 too.
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,883,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancet71 View Post
Key words from my post: Doesn't always win...I didn't say, never wins.
And, as I've already said repeatedly, I'm aware that sticking star players together doesn't always result in a championship. You've said it, I've said it, so we don't need to keep going over that point.
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Old 10-24-2011, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,883,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancet71 View Post
That's the problem with the Wade-Lebron combo. Both want to be the go-to-guy but considering Wade was already there, it's him, and Lebron can't handle being a 1A and not the #1. Pippen knew he was secondary to Jordan, no questions asked. I
For my money, I'd put Wade in the 'closer' role, at least as far as taking the last shot. I suppose it depends on who has the better matchup as well, but Wade for my money is better at breaking down a defense, which is why he's historically played better against elite defenses than Lebron. If a team can succeed in making Lebron a jumpshooter, you've 'won' because his jumpshot is still very streaky. Dallas made Lebron a jumpshooter in the finals as that series went on, and when he lost confidence in his shot, you can tell it impacted the rest of his game. Wade, while streaky himself, is much craftier at penetrating and getting into the heart of the defense and making 'something' happen.
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Old 10-26-2011, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Santa Ana
1,198 posts, read 2,050,950 times
Reputation: 458
and everybody is still making it out to be that Dwight Howard will go to the Lakers
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