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Old 03-09-2012, 11:06 AM
 
1,429 posts, read 2,541,754 times
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Technically Kansas has 5 national championships...3 NCAA and 2 Helms

I'm always going to pick Kansas as the best college basketball program historically - nobody beats our tradition or atmosphere. But I also admit that because I graduated from KU I cannot be totally objective.

One thing I can be objective about this year however is the Big XII is the better conference over the ACC. Both conferences are top heavy but I think the Big XII is deeper.

Plus 8 straight conference titles in any power conference is amazing.
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,754,815 times
Reputation: 2809
Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Greensboro Resident View Post
You are big on division titles because that suits your arguement. It's all about national championships, that's what every team in every sport plays for, a national championship period. And Big 12 is NOT "one of the best conferences in the country" in college basketball, the ACC, Big East and Big Ten would have something to say about that. Other than Kansas and Texas, what other program has consistently won in the Big 12?

I am aware of the "all-time wins" list, here's the top 4:

1- Kentucky: 2052 Wins, 647 Losses, Winning Percentage= .760
2- Kansas: 2038 Wins, 799 Losses, Winning Percentage= .718
3- North Carolina: 2033 Wins, 728 Losses, Winning Percentage= .736
4- Duke: 1944 Wins, 827 Losses, Winning Percentage= .702

Kansas has 5 more wins than UNC; however, UNC's winning percentage is 0.736 vs. Kansas' 0.718. Kansas has had 71 more losses! Then you look at National Championships and Final Four appearances:

North Carolina = 5 National Championships (tied 3rd all time), 18 Final Four appearances (tied 1st all time with UCLA)
Kansas= 3 National Championships (tied 5th all time), 13 Final Four appearances (5th all time)

The stats above tell me that Kansas historically has not been more successful than North Carolina. The case for the last 20 years is even stronger than all time.

You are a Tar Heel hater, that's the only reason you'd call Kansas more successful than North Carolina. Let your excessive "Homerism" go a little and then make the call. Or let a non KU, non UNC fan on here look at these stats and make the call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Greensboro Resident View Post
Hey pot, this is kettle... how are you doing?

You must be the one smoking the crack. Go back and look up all Final Four teams from the last 20 years and tell me how the ACC stacks up against the Big 12.... While you're at it, look up the two teams in the national championship game in the last 20 years and tell me how the ACC stacks up against the Big 12... While at it, look up the national champions from the last 20 years and tell me how the ACC stacks up against the Big 12...

Let me help you out, since 1991, 18 ACC teams have made it to the Final Four vs. 8 teams in the Big 12. The ACC has won the national championship 8 times vs. ONE time by the Big 12. No other team than Kansas has won the national championship since 1991.

You got a big Kansas/Big 12 bias cloud over your head!


First, I am not a Tar Heeler Hater. I am indifferent to the Tar Heels. They matter to me none. Sure, I wanted to beat Roy Williams in 2008 but I got to see him cry so that is over with. Dont flatter yourself thinking I have any more feelings about UNC than indifference. Someone needs to have their big head popped. First, you think the ACC is consistently the best conference in the country and then you think someone in Kansas City "hates" the Tarheels. Hating would takes energy and effort and if you think I am spending either on UNC, you need to lower yourself.

You cannot cut the top off something and then use that as a comparison. The ACC has Duke and North Carolina which is great but when you are judging best conference, you need to consider all teams involved. You cant just take two teams and then claim you are the best because you happen to have two of the national powerhouses instead of one.

The Big 12 consistently put 6 teams in the tournament and even games between the top team and bottom team can be grueling. IThat's half the conference. How many teams is ACC putting in this season? 4, 5 if things go well? If you think it is a cakewalk for KU to win the conference then you need to pay closer attention. If you cannot admit how impressive it is for a team to win a BCS conference 8 straight years and just claim it is too easy then you dont know nearly as much about college basketball as you think you do.

You cant just take National Championships and Final Four appearances and then claim your the best. Conferences include ALL TEAMS, not just the best. That's not how statistics work. If you are running a business you cant just take your best years financially and report them to shareholders. You have to include even your worst. Top to bottom, the Big 12 is every bit as good as the ACC, Big Ten, and Big East taking the last couple of decades into account. There have been years when the ACC is the best, years when the Big Ten is the best, years when the Big East is the best like recently, and years when the Big 12 was the best. Claiming anything otherwise is just plain dumb.
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Old 03-09-2012, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MO
5,763 posts, read 9,754,815 times
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With all that said, I really hope that if the Big 12 falls apart eventually, that Kansas ends up in the ACC. You have to admit, having UNC, Duke, and Kansas fight it out for the conference would be awesome every year.
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Old 03-09-2012, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
2,532 posts, read 2,948,675 times
Reputation: 1357
Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
The ACC is herald as the best conference in college basketball? Not in my world. The last few years, the Big East has been the best conference in college basketball.
6 of the last 11 championship games saw an ACC team playing in the National Championship, winning 5 of them. As to the Big East, it is close to equal so then you look at the top. 6 appearance beats the Big East's 3 appearances.

Quote:
The best conference in college basketball switches between the ACC, Big East, Big 10, and Big 12. The Pac 10 even had some time up top a few years ago.
ACC, Big East, and Big 10 are the only teams that have a strong conference.

Cruise control? The Big 12 has had three teams in the Top 10 pretty much all season and 5 in the Top 25 and this is a down year for the conference. Probably the weakest the conference has been in years and they still had 20% of the Top 25 for a good chunk of the season.
[/quote]
4 in the top 25. Hats off. The reality of it is that it really is Kansas and Mizzou and the rest. Iowa St and Texas haven't won big out of conference. Baylor is questionable... heck Perry Jones draft stock has dropped.

For fun...
Big 12 has 4 of its 10 teams with losing records (i.e. below .500).
The ACC has 3 of its 12 teams with losing records (i.e. below .500).

Quote:
Cruise control? Wow.... Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Texas, and Oklahoma State which are usually all good to very good to sometimes excellent were all **** this year.
It is all relevant. The Iowa St of your conference wouldn't be where they are without those guys not being there.

Quote:
Usually the Big 12 has 8 to 9 teams that are either in the tournament or just left out.
In the past 10 or so years (too busy to look past it), they haven't had above 6 teams in. There are a couple years of only 4 teams getting in. Just making sure you had your facts straight. Though again, what is the success rate... For instance last year, the ACC had 3 Sweet 16 teams vs Big 12 had 1 Sweet 16 team so 75% of the ACC teams made the Sweet 16 compared to 20% of Big 12 teams.

Quote:
Do you even watch college basketball?
As you ask, I question you. Your fanboyness is clouding your judgement.

Quote:
On top of that, the two weakest basketball programs in the conference left this last season leaving the conference in harder to win than before.
Is it really harder to win? I think not. No one has been in contention this year but Mizzou and Kansas. And Mizzou is on their way out, making your conference even weaker. Further proof: Baylor (#3) didn't win against either team in the 4 matchups; the two away from home they lost by 15+ (i.e. non-competitive).

Thanks for playing
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis
3,675 posts, read 7,849,532 times
Reputation: 2333
Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
First, I am not a Tar Heeler Hater. I am indifferent to the Tar Heels. They matter to me none. Sure, I wanted to beat Roy Williams in 2008 but I got to see him cry so that is over with. Dont flatter yourself thinking I have any more feelings about UNC than indifference. Someone needs to have their big head popped. First, you think the ACC is consistently the best conference in the country and then you think someone in Kansas City "hates" the Tarheels. Hating would takes energy and effort and if you think I am spending either on UNC, you need to lower yourself.

You cannot cut the top off something and then use that as a comparison. The ACC has Duke and North Carolina which is great but when you are judging best conference, you need to consider all teams involved. You cant just take two teams and then claim you are the best because you happen to have two of the national powerhouses instead of one.

The Big 12 consistently put 6 teams in the tournament and even games between the top team and bottom team can be grueling. IThat's half the conference. How many teams is ACC putting in this season? 4, 5 if things go well? If you think it is a cakewalk for KU to win the conference then you need to pay closer attention. If you cannot admit how impressive it is for a team to win a BCS conference 8 straight years and just claim it is too easy then you dont know nearly as much about college basketball as you think you do.

You cant just take National Championships and Final Four appearances and then claim your the best. Conferences include ALL TEAMS, not just the best. That's not how statistics work. If you are running a business you cant just take your best years financially and report them to shareholders. You have to include even your worst. Top to bottom, the Big 12 is every bit as good as the ACC, Big Ten, and Big East taking the last couple of decades into account. There have been years when the ACC is the best, years when the Big Ten is the best, years when the Big East is the best like recently, and years when the Big 12 was the best. Claiming anything otherwise is just plain dumb.
Wow... It's as if you didn't even read what I wrote and didn't even look up any facts I presented to you. Are you just brushing aside all the stats I presented to you about the ACC vs. Big 12?

You just lost all respect and credibility in my book dude! You are nothing but a homer and absolutely impossible to reason with. Can't have a discussion with an unreasonable homer. I will let you be in your Kansas bubble and will not ever engage in a discussion with you, it's just a waste of my time!
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Lexington Ky
891 posts, read 2,758,842 times
Reputation: 514
Loving my UK Cats. This team is a blast to watch
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Ro cha cha, NY
3,077 posts, read 4,214,431 times
Reputation: 5401
Quote:
Originally Posted by RjRobb2 View Post
With all that said, I really hope that if the Big 12 falls apart eventually, that Kansas ends up in the ACC. You have to admit, having UNC, Duke, and Kansas fight it out for the conference would be awesome every year.

Don't forget Syracuse and Pitt. Last I knew Syracuse thumped N. Carolina the last time they played by about twenty. And Duke lost to a Big East softy in st. Johns last year by about twenty.

With Syracuse and Pitt, you are adding toughness and two completely capable teams of beating up on N. Carolina and Duke..Add Kansas, who Syracuse also beat about two years ago and you'll have five top contenders. N.C, Duke, Syracuse, Kansas, and Pitt...

I don't know if the Jayhawks are academically good enough to get into the ACC..Who know's, but that would still be one hell of a conference..

Dont' count out the Big east either. Even without perenial powerhouses like Syracuse and Pittsburgh, with the additon of Memphis, they will still be a very strong conference..Just like how they've been.
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Old 03-11-2012, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Syracuse, New York
3,114 posts, read 2,529,159 times
Reputation: 2276
One of the interesting sidebar issues of the NCAA tourney is the realization that Gonzaga fans will go ballisic if they're not the final mid-major left standing.

It's as if Gonzaga fans are following a completely different tourney than power program fans.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:05 PM
 
160 posts, read 214,860 times
Reputation: 122
Go Green...Sparty On!
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Syracuse, New York
3,114 posts, read 2,529,159 times
Reputation: 2276
During their selection show, I think it would be interesting for CBS to have live reaction shots of local strippers when they find out wahat teams and fan bases are coming to their tourney site.
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