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Old 12-13-2011, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Long Island,New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
Clippers are gonna match so Jordan's not going to the warriors.
I heard this prior and I wonder if GS did this so the Clips would be forced to match because Jordan is good friends with the big guy.

 
Old 12-13-2011, 08:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JL View Post
It's really simple. The Hornets are owned by the the league. They have to do what is in the interests of a team that is on life support. Of course they want good young players, picks, and preferably a star in order to entice a buyer. I don't blame them. Even the Clippers are having a hard time getting CP3. Apparently, their trade proposal was rejected yesterday. They're going through another modified proposal to see if the Hornets will accept it. Apparently, the Hornets wanted Gordon in the trade, but the Clippers didn't want to give him up. We shall see if they give in or not. An insider to the trade negotiations between the Hornets and Clippers has called it a "circus" thus far. Btw, Stern has appointed two NBA top executives(Stu Jackson and Paul Litvin) to make decisions and conduct negotiations with teams interested in CP3. Any team interested in Paul has to send a formal bid through the league office....pretty clear to me who is in charge of the Hornets.

As far as Kobe, i believe Mike Brown emphasizes defense. That could mean he will have to exert more on defense than he had in the past. If this is the case, he will be expending alot of energy which could hurt his offensive game. Also, Brown is not playing the triangle, so there is gonna be a learning curve for Kobe and the Lakers.

UPDATE 8:20PM CST: Looks like there is not gonna be a trade between Clippers and Hornets despite renewed efforts....check out video.

Sources -- NBA officials renew New Orleans Hornets' Chris Paul-to-Los Angeles Clippers push - ESPN Los Angeles
Interesting. I know they paid about 300mil for the Hornets and I suspect it was bought by the NBA using loans instead of assessing all the owners. This makes me wonder whom owns the NBA and in what percentages. ie) are the team owners are equal partial owners or does some other party own 50% of the NBA and the owners own the rest etc.

I predict that the Hornets will eventually be moved in order to attract the deep pocket buyer to the right locale....but where?
 
Old 12-13-2011, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,879,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
It's *possible* but I think some of your assumptions like the 75game seasons all through his late 30's and still scoring 20+ppg during most of that time would require some luck and more importantly his acceptance of a big role on a less competitive team.

Kobe's benefit is that he has always kept himself incredibly fit and frankly there is no precendent for a scorer of his calibre at his position continuing late into his career. (Drexler stopped at 35 as one example and MJ came and went)

The problem is that he will have to CHOOSE in his late 30's whether he wants to play a lesser role on a championship calibre team and maybe only score 1000pts a season....or if he wants to continue as the offensive #1 option on a lesser team.
Well said. And, if Kobe doesn't maintain a full season over the next 3 years, with a 25ppg average or thereabouts, that only puts more pressure on him to chuck away at 36-37-38 years old, at the expense of the Lakers. For example, if the Lakers THIS season were to land Dwight Howard, there's no reason why Kobe should continue to be the number one option with a prime Howard on the roster. Like you said, he's going to have to either take a lesser role on a good team as he ages, or continue to fire away on a lesser team to achieve a personal milestone.
 
Old 12-13-2011, 12:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Well said. And, if Kobe doesn't maintain a full season over the next 3 years, with a 25ppg average or thereabouts, that only puts more pressure on him to chuck away at 36-37-38 years old, at the expense of the Lakers. For example, if the Lakers THIS season were to land Dwight Howard, there's no reason why Kobe should continue to be the number one option with a prime Howard on the roster. Like you said, he's going to have to either take a lesser role on a good team as he ages, or continue to fire away on a lesser team to achieve a personal milestone.
It's interesting because it can get potentially UGLY when an athlete does this especially because outside of LA....Kobe isn't that liked.

You can go the Emmit Smith route and not really drag down an already crappy AZ team.

Or you can go the Brett Favre route and keep playing hurt to keep a record alive and drag a team down with you. (NY Jets)

The only guys I can think of that kept plugging were some of the more borderline HOF players that stayed around somewhat effectively to ensure selection would be fairly guaranteed where perhaps they would have retired a bit earlier otherwise. (Reggie Miller?)

This will be VERY interesting to watch and ironically even if he does it....it doesn't change his legacy. It's not like hanging around until 40 putting up meaningless pts is going to move him into GOAT consideration because he's already going to wind up somewhere in the top 10-15 give or take.
 
Old 12-13-2011, 03:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Someone call a WAAAAAAAAAAAHBulance.

The (temporary) owners of NO vetoed the trade. Had I been the owner of NO and the GM approached me with that deal I'd have possibly fired him on the spot and of course would have torpedoed it also.

I find it funny as heck that when the actual OWNERS of NO balk at a lopsided trade you start bringing up the "integrity of the sport". That's a pile of BS from a rabid Laker fan that was drooling over a lopsided deal that got tanked.
Not a Laker fan, but also not a fan of a game who the commissioner likes to pick winners and losers. I mean read the letter this whole thing is a joke the whole letter is about the Lakers possibly getting Howard and being too good.
 
Old 12-14-2011, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post

This will be VERY interesting to watch and ironically even if he does it....it doesn't change his legacy. It's not like hanging around until 40 putting up meaningless pts is going to move him into GOAT consideration because he's already going to wind up somewhere in the top 10-15 give or take.
Indeed, but for Kobe I suspect it's an 'accomplishment' to throw into the whole Kobe-Jordan debate. Matters little really, how many years is he going to have to play in order to break this record? How will chucking away at 38 years ago affect his legacy? Will be interesting to see how this ends.
 
Old 12-14-2011, 08:23 AM
 
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Most points ever does mean something, but Jordan took time off for baseball and went to college. He also probably could've gone a few more years after '98.
 
Old 12-14-2011, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Earth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Continental View Post
Most points ever does mean something, but Jordan took time off for baseball and went to college. He also probably could've gone a few more years after '98.
It does, but it sure as hell is not the deciding factor in whether Kobe is considered the GOAT at the end of it all. Jordan accomplished more in 15 seasons, than Kobe has in 15. So, Kobe can play until he's 50 and score 50,000 points, in the eyes of the majority Jordan is better than him, and I don't see much at this stage changing that perception. Jordan neither has the most points( Kareem) or the most rings( Russell), but that hasn't stopped the majority of fans, analysts, basketball peers, from considering Jordan the GOAT.

And, on the topic of Jordan scoring, he missed almost an entire season in 86, and retired twice. I have no doubt that if Jordan had gone right through till about 37, with no retirements, he'd have been nipping at Kareem's heels.
 
Old 12-14-2011, 09:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
Not a Laker fan, but also not a fan of a game who the commissioner likes to pick winners and losers. I mean read the letter this whole thing is a joke the whole letter is about the Lakers possibly getting Howard and being too good.
That's one letter from ONE owner of the Hornets. The letter cites that the deal is so lopsided that it opens up the possibility of also getting Howard as a depiction of just how bad the deal is along with a valid concern.

Cubans complaints were similar.

Then there are the 20+ other owners that also complained to Stern.

There is your bottom line. Sterns BOSSES that also OWN the hornets told him they didn't like the deal. I don't know all their reasons or motivations but it doesn't matter because they own the hornets.

Not wanting your opponents to get a steal of an acquistion from a team you own is not a valid complaint?

Tell you what, trade me a new mustang for an old corolla. Of course it's a bad trade but you are just objecting because you don't want to see me in a new mustang you hater.
 
Old 12-14-2011, 09:54 AM
 
51,928 posts, read 41,798,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
Indeed, but for Kobe I suspect it's an 'accomplishment' to throw into the whole Kobe-Jordan debate. Matters little really, how many years is he going to have to play in order to break this record? How will chucking away at 38 years ago affect his legacy? Will be interesting to see how this ends.
Agreed.

I think the bottom line is that Kareem's point totals doesn't make people consider him better than Wilt or Russel or Jordan etc.

Another way to look at it is Ray Allen is ahead of Bird on the list and is going to pass Oscar Robertson this year....and Vince Carter is going to pass David Robinson this year.

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Points | Basketball-Reference.com

Kobe is an interesting individual, not quite sure which way this is going to go.
I still have to chuckle at the Lakers fans after the 2010 season predicting how Kobe would quite likely win at least 3 more rings...mabye 5 more and MVPs and surpass Jordan's legacy blah blah blah and how he wouldn't start slowing down until his late 30's and other delusions.
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