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Old 12-22-2011, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,362,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IXCell View Post
I just cant put a guy at #17 who cant hit a regular 15 foot jumpshot consistently...not saying 3pt range, just a normal jump shot. Plus, isnt the greatest free throw shooter either (Rondo).
"isn't the greatest" is a massive understatement, I think he is the worst, or one of the worst of all time for a PG at the line.
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Old 12-23-2011, 05:26 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,178,709 times
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No wonder I'm not much of a fan of the NBA anymore.

What happened to the days, of, oh I don't know....Stockton, Malone, Mullin, Bird, Magic, Pippen, David Robinson, etc.

Funny how 15 years ago, the top players were some of the best of all time. Can you imagine Bynum on this list 15 years ago??? Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, etc. It's crazy.

-How is Gasol better than Nash or Anthony?

-Why is Jason Kidd at 49, if he just won a championship, 10x all star, #2 all time assists? What has Kidd done to put himself all the way down there?

-Rondo career free throw percentage, 62%! Unbelievable.

-I have to put Kobe at #5. How can you have 5 titles, and all his accolades, yet be behind Paul. I'd put it maybe, James, Howard, Wade, Dirk?, Kobe?, Paul, Durant.
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:07 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,878,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post


-Why is Jason Kidd at 49, if he just won a championship, 10x all star, #2 all time assists? What has Kidd done to put himself all the way down there?



-I have to put Kobe at #5. How can you have 5 titles, and all his accolades, yet be behind Paul. I'd put it maybe, James, Howard, Wade, Dirk?, Kobe?, Paul, Durant.
The rankings are based on their standing in today's game, not their career achievements. If that was the case, Kobe and Duncan would be #1 and 2#( flip flop that order if you like), as they are far and beyond the most decorated players still playing.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,362,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
No wonder I'm not much of a fan of the NBA anymore.

What happened to the days, of, oh I don't know....Stockton, Malone, Mullin, Bird, Magic, Pippen, David Robinson, etc.

Funny how 15 years ago, the top players were some of the best of all time. Can you imagine Bynum on this list 15 years ago??? Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, etc. It's crazy.

-How is Gasol better than Nash or Anthony?

-Why is Jason Kidd at 49, if he just won a championship, 10x all star, #2 all time assists? What has Kidd done to put himself all the way down there?

-Rondo career free throw percentage, 62%! Unbelievable.

-I have to put Kobe at #5. How can you have 5 titles, and all his accolades, yet be behind Paul. I'd put it maybe, James, Howard, Wade, Dirk?, Kobe?, Paul, Durant.
I love the 90s NBA too, but I disagree with your assessment here. If you were to comprise a top 50 players from 15 years ago, using all star teams as the criteria, you would have guys like:

Tom Gugliotta, Detlef Schrimpf, Chris Gatling, Eddie Jones, Vin Baker, Terrell Brandon and Christian Laettner. Are these some of the best of all time?

I feel you are over-romanticizing an era. There has always been a HUGE drop off after the elitist NBA players. No MVP has EVER been drafted lower than #15 (Steve Nash). Why? Because it is a very top heavy league, which is also the reason you only have about 7 teams winning the last 30 titles or something like that.

I will agree though, that the center pool then was deeper and better.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:30 AM
 
51,892 posts, read 41,774,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
No wonder I'm not much of a fan of the NBA anymore.

What happened to the days, of, oh I don't know....Stockton, Malone, Mullin, Bird, Magic, Pippen, David Robinson, etc.

Funny how 15 years ago, the top players were some of the best of all time. Can you imagine Bynum on this list 15 years ago??? Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, etc. It's crazy.

-How is Gasol better than Nash or Anthony?

-Why is Jason Kidd at 49, if he just won a championship, 10x all star, #2 all time assists? What has Kidd done to put himself all the way down there?

-Rondo career free throw percentage, 62%! Unbelievable.

-I have to put Kobe at #5. How can you have 5 titles, and all his accolades, yet be behind Paul. I'd put it maybe, James, Howard, Wade, Dirk?, Kobe?, Paul, Durant.
Duncan and Kobe for example are as accomplished as anyone from the era you mentioned except Jordan.

Let me put it another way, if you allow me to take active players and then project them in their primes like the guys you have mentioned. I can field Kobe, Duncan, Rose, Howard and of course Lebron. That's 5 HOFers right there and if you make a greatest team of all-time...most of those 5 would make the 12 man roster.

Plus you just had Shaq retire and frankly he had some seasons I will put up against any player that ever played the game. (Like the playoff series vs. 76ers)
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,878,428 times
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There's also more of a 'mythical' element surrounding the guys from the 90's. Not sure if I'm using the right term, but I'll attempt to explain: the 90's stars just 'feel' more like legendary players, compared to the current crop. Perhaps it's because those are the guys many of us in our 20's/30's/40's grew up with, so we place them on a pedestal. Maybe its because the 90's era AKA the dream team era was the time period where Basketball became an international force. So, guys like Kobe, Duncan, Garnett, etc etc, despite being accomplished players in their own right, don't have that 'legendary 'feel' that guys like Jordan, Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Stockton, etc etc had. Today's generation is walking along the path that was paved by the generation before them, the aforementioned 90's greats.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:37 AM
 
51,892 posts, read 41,774,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
The rankings are based on their standing in today's game, not their career achievements. If that was the case, Kobe and Duncan would be #1 and 2#( flip flop that order if you like), as they are far and beyond the most decorated players still playing.
Yeah. It will be fun to see just how high some of the other guys that are headed to the HOF move up the GOAT ladder. Lebron, Wade, Rose, Durant and Howard etc.

Frankly it will be both harder and easier for Howard because he isn't playing against all these other beasts in their prime but also it used to be more of a big mans game. If Howard picks up where he left off last season.....his critics (unless they have alzheimers and keep pointing to seasons when he was 22) will have nothing to pick at him over.

Lebron, if things go well could end up considered the best 3 to play the game.
Gotta figure Bird is probably the current title holder there.
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Old 12-23-2011, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,362,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
There's also more of a 'mythical' element surrounding the guys from the 90's. Not sure if I'm using the right term, but I'll attempt to explain: the 90's stars just 'feel' more like legendary players, compared to the current crop. Perhaps it's because those are the guys many of us in our 20's/30's/40's grew up with, so we place them on a pedestal. Maybe its because the 90's era AKA the dream team era was the time period where Basketball became an international force. So, guys like Kobe, Duncan, Garnett, etc etc, despite being accomplished players in their own right, don't have that 'legendary 'feel' that guys like Jordan, Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Stockton, etc etc had. Today's generation is walking along the path that was paved by the generation before them, the aforementioned 90's greats.
I think this is spot on. The "old" is always nostalgic for the past, and in the world of sports, where generations of players come and go relatively quickly being in your late 20s - 30s - 40s, makes you an "older" fan. Good call on the dream team aspect as well. Lets not forget the evolution basketball underwent in the 80s/90s, the game changed. If I try to watch a game from say, pre-1975, it might as well be a different sport entirely. Whereas I am not sure that is as true in a sport like baseball. So the guys like Magic, Bird, Jordan, etc were not only great, but were pioneers of their styles as well. Meaning, even if todays crop can match their talent, they will never match their mystique. And to the casual observer that means they were "better players," but they are basing it on a faulty premise.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,878,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
Meaning, even if todays crop can match their talent, they will never match their mystique. And to the casual observer that means they were "better players,"
Bingo, you said in two sentences what I took a paragraph to explain. Well done.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Here or There
3,960 posts, read 2,511,103 times
Reputation: 1655
Im not a big Carmelo fan--he can score like nobody's business, but without playing defense, I have my doubts about where he should be ranked...
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