U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-23-2011, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,878,428 times
Reputation: 1802

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post

Lebron, if things go well could end up considered the best 3 to play the game.
Gotta figure Bird is probably the current title holder there.
Perhaps in terms of sheer raw physical talent and impact/dominance. Bird, with his somewhat average physical skills, was a remarkable player who dominated purely with skill and intelligence. You'll see another Lebron before you see another Bird.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-23-2011, 11:52 AM
 
Location: New York, NY
651 posts, read 1,582,799 times
Reputation: 613
Durant should be in the top 3. He's the real deal! I actually agree with Kobe being 7, since he has declined throughout the years. Melo should be in the top 10, Blake should not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2011, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,178,709 times
Reputation: 2726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
I love the 90s NBA too, but I disagree with your assessment here. If you were to comprise a top 50 players from 15 years ago, using all star teams as the criteria, you would have guys like:

Tom Gugliotta, Detlef Schrimpf, Chris Gatling, Eddie Jones, Vin Baker, Terrell Brandon and Christian Laettner. Are these some of the best of all time?

I feel you are over-romanticizing an era. There has always been a HUGE drop off after the elitist NBA players. No MVP has EVER been drafted lower than #15 (Steve Nash). Why? Because it is a very top heavy league, which is also the reason you only have about 7 teams winning the last 30 titles or something like that.

I will agree though, that the center pool then was deeper and better.
I don't know about romanticizing. The center pool was definitely deeper.

-Olajuwon, Ewing, D Robinson.

You also had loyalty, dedication, work ethic, drive, etc. Guys like Stockton and Malone staying with one team for their whole careers (besides Malone going to the lakers for his last season). How many all stars would stay with one team now for 15 years, especially in a small market like utah?

Some of the guys in the 90's were very "pure", i.e. Mullin. I think they grew up in a different era and had a different work ethic. The money and endorsements were high, but they weren't crazy like today.

I think the guys from the 90's for the most part earned the mythical status. You had the dream team in '92, which was probably the greatest collection of US talent ever. Will there ever be another dream team like that? Probably not.

-There were also so many peak performances in the 90's....i.e. Jordan in the finals, olajuwon. Some of the best ever. Some of the guys now can't play in the playoffs. Or their playoff performance drops noticeably from their regular season performance. I think what made the 90's "mythical", these guys showed up to play.

Part of it is old nostalgia. Part of it is real though....are the NBA finals ratings going to get back to the 90's? And the level of interest and enthusisam. Key Arena on a sunday in the playoffs? That place was a madhouse.

-Back to the ESPN 50 list. Vin Baker and Gugliotta got up to 20 points per game in their career. Schrempf in his prime was 14-19 points a game. Derrick Coleman got up to 20 points a game.

Bynum is too injury prone, and too low numbers.

One of the problems with this list, from number 20-50, a lot of these guys have never gotten up to 20 points a game. Marc Gasol, Horford, Noah?? 10-11 points a game.

Alonzo Mourning would have been on this list, he was putting up 21-23 a game in his prime.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2011, 08:53 AM
 
51,887 posts, read 41,774,553 times
Reputation: 32369
Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
I don't know about romanticizing. The center pool was definitely deeper.

-Olajuwon, Ewing, D Robinson.

You also had loyalty, dedication, work ethic, drive, etc. Guys like Stockton and Malone staying with one team for their whole careers (besides Malone going to the lakers for his last season). How many all stars would stay with one team now for 15 years, especially in a small market like utah?

Some of the guys in the 90's were very "pure", i.e. Mullin. I think they grew up in a different era and had a different work ethic. The money and endorsements were high, but they weren't crazy like today.

I think the guys from the 90's for the most part earned the mythical status. You had the dream team in '92, which was probably the greatest collection of US talent ever. Will there ever be another dream team like that? Probably not.

-There were also so many peak performances in the 90's....i.e. Jordan in the finals, olajuwon. Some of the best ever. Some of the guys now can't play in the playoffs. Or their playoff performance drops noticeably from their regular season performance. I think what made the 90's "mythical", these guys showed up to play.

Part of it is old nostalgia. Part of it is real though....are the NBA finals ratings going to get back to the 90's? And the level of interest and enthusisam. Key Arena on a sunday in the playoffs? That place was a madhouse.

-Back to the ESPN 50 list. Vin Baker and Gugliotta got up to 20 points per game in their career. Schrempf in his prime was 14-19 points a game. Derrick Coleman got up to 20 points a game.

Bynum is too injury prone, and too low numbers.

One of the problems with this list, from number 20-50, a lot of these guys have never gotten up to 20 points a game. Marc Gasol, Horford, Noah?? 10-11 points a game.

Alonzo Mourning would have been on this list, he was putting up 21-23 a game in his prime.
Some of what you say is true, but some is romanticizing.

Your recollection of money and endorsements not being crazy like today are wrong. Go look at Shaq's Laker's contract...you can't even get close to that contract after the old CBA let alone the new one.

DC, Barkley and several others didn't have a work ethnic as strong as guys like Howard, Rose and so forth. Kobe's work ethic is up there with anyone...that's a load of crap. Heck DC had a work ethic like Eddy Curry. You also forget guys like Shawn Kemp.....

Kobe has been with his team forever, Wade, Paul Pierce, Garnett has only had 2 teams, Nowitzki? Meanwhile um...Barkley had many teams, Mourning moved around a bit, Rodman? 3 teams+, Kevin Johnson. It jsut seems like you are cherry picking memories.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2011, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,178,709 times
Reputation: 2726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Some of what you say is true, but some is romanticizing.

Your recollection of money and endorsements not being crazy like today are wrong. Go look at Shaq's Laker's contract...you can't even get close to that contract after the old CBA let alone the new one.

DC, Barkley and several others didn't have a work ethnic as strong as guys like Howard, Rose and so forth. Kobe's work ethic is up there with anyone...that's a load of crap. Heck DC had a work ethic like Eddy Curry. You also forget guys like Shawn Kemp.....

Kobe has been with his team forever, Wade, Paul Pierce, Garnett has only had 2 teams, Nowitzki? Meanwhile um...Barkley had many teams, Mourning moved around a bit, Rodman? 3 teams+, Kevin Johnson. It jsut seems like you are cherry picking memories.
The biggest question marks on that list,

-Marc Gasol, #26. Mourning would have been around #20-25 in the 90's.

Mourning, 21 a game, 10 rebounds, 2.5-3 blocks. Gasol is barely at 12 points a game.

Noah, Bynum. Rik Smits was outscoring these guys in the 90's.

-Wouldn't you pick Joe Dumars over Rondo?

Another 90's name I forgot, Reggie Lewis.

-The contract issue. Mullin was making $2.8 million a year at golden state. Our buddy Bynum last year, $13 million, lol. Odom $10-14 million with the lakers.

The money didn't get crazy until the middle 90's. Joe Dumars, $1.2 million a year? Stockton $2.4 million. Even Jordan was only making $4 million a year in 1994-95.

I don't think it's all perception. Look at the salary numbers. They made a big leap after 95 or 97.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2011, 08:54 AM
 
4,399 posts, read 9,053,686 times
Reputation: 2352
Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
I don't know about romanticizing. The center pool was definitely deeper.

-Olajuwon, Ewing, D Robinson.
Shaq, Duncan, Howard. Your definitely romanticizing. All this work ethic, loyalty stuff is all nostagalgia, all imaginary.


Quote:
Originally Posted by John23 View Post
-There were also so many peak performances in the 90's....i.e. Jordan in the finals, olajuwon. Some of the best ever. Some of the guys now can't play in the playoffs. Or their playoff performance drops noticeably from their regular season performance. I think what made the 90's "mythical", these guys showed up to play.

Part of it is old nostalgia. Part of it is real though....are the NBA finals ratings going to get back to the 90's? And the level of interest and enthusisam. Key Arena on a sunday in the playoffs? That place was a madhouse.

-Back to the ESPN 50 list. Vin Baker and Gugliotta got up to 20 points per game in their career. Schrempf in his prime was 14-19 points a game. Derrick Coleman got up to 20 points a game.

Bynum is too injury prone, and too low numbers.

One of the problems with this list, from number 20-50, a lot of these guys have never gotten up to 20 points a game. Marc Gasol, Horford, Noah?? 10-11 points a game.

Alonzo Mourning would have been on this list, he was putting up 21-23 a game in his prime.
Vin Baker, Schremp and Gugliotta certainly aren't any better than many of the guys on this list. And there have been plenty of big time performances in the 2000s Shaq, Kobe Duncan. This is a lot like music everyone who lived in one era will always complain that the music in the next error is much worse than the previous era. And it will go on and on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2011, 01:48 PM
 
880 posts, read 1,754,158 times
Reputation: 624
Where's the love for Kevin Love? Leading rebounder last year 20 points a game,since 2008 -09 he has 30 points 20 rebounds a game 5 times rest of the NBA 9 times.Steven a smith who claims to be the authority on basketball has yet to give him any credit.Charles barkley calls him Kevin Chamberlain Love for what he does on the court.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2011, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,878,428 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008 View Post
Shaq, Duncan, Howard. Your definitely romanticizing.
90's Center pool was deeper in terms of top level talent, I'm not sure how this is even debatable. Shaq,Howard, and Yao are the only dominant/all-star caliber centers this decade, and Yao's career was effectively over after 6 years and he's out of the league now. A guy like Bynum would be slightly above average in the 90's, and he's considered one of the best( when healthy) in this era. That should tell you something. Ben Wallace for a 4-5 year window was a prominent force ( defensively) and wouldn't have been nearly as highly regarded in the 90's.

The 90's had Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, Mutumbo, Mourning all at or near the peak of their powers. 6 sure-fire hall of famers, who would no doubt be at the very top of the league at the center position if they played today. Then you go down the next peg to guys like Brad Daugherty and Rik Smits. The greatest collection of star talent at the center position, all playing in their primes, was the 90's. Easily.

Last edited by Roman77; 12-29-2011 at 02:32 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2011, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Cook County
5,288 posts, read 6,362,336 times
Reputation: 3070
Mutombo wasn't really that great, after his rookie year he never averaged more than 13 and change ppg. Are we sure he is a slam dunk HOF'er?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-29-2011, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,878,428 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangeish View Post
Mutombo wasn't really that great, after his rookie year he never averaged more than 13 and change ppg. Are we sure he is a slam dunk HOF'er?
He was never a scorer, his worth was on the defensive end as a shotblocker and rebounder. He's what, a 4 time defensive player of the year, multiple blocked shots and rebound champ, perennial all defensive team selection? Yeah... he's in, I won't say first ballot but he's definitely in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Sports > Basketball
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top