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Old 01-13-2012, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,881,684 times
Reputation: 1802

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Dirk didn't have a gem of a series either....but he get's a pass because his supporting cast shot the lights out in a couple games.

Are we having this conversation if Barea, Terry etc. don't have some monster games thrown in the mix?

I'm just saying that in a number of these analysis the loser goes under a microscope and the winner gets a free pass.

It would be fun to sit down with you and re-watch the whole series over some brews, I enjoy your comments and it would be enlightening to point out where the defenses are focusing and what they are doing to stop Dirk or Lebron etc. and how it all goes down.
No, Dirk didn't have a stellar series either, though I should point out that there was a glaring discrepancy between the two when it came to 4th quarter performance. If memory serves, Lebron scored in the teens in the 4th quarter in TOTAL over 6 games. Dirk, by contrast, scored some 50+ points total in the 4th quarters.

Which brings me to this point: while as I admit earlier, Dirk didn't have a great series, the reality is Dirk isn't held to the same standard. At best, he's a top 25-30 player all-time. Lebron, on the other hand, is drawing comparisons to Jordan, Magic, Bird, Oscar....the level of expectation is greater, hence the level of scrutiny greater when those expectations fall short. We are also talking about a guy who promised 8 championships, and said it would be easy.

So, while I admit that some of the talk and 'hate' on Lebron is excessive, the reality is Lebron created some of the expectation with his own words and actions, and failed to deliver when it really counted. Jordan let his game do the talking. So does Dirk.....and win or lose that's why I can respect both. Lebron James cannot, if he's honest with himself, look back at that series and say he laid it all on the line. Until he does that, he's not in the conversation with Jordan, or Bird, or Magic, or anyone in that upper tier of NBA greats.
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:09 PM
 
51,983 posts, read 41,825,420 times
Reputation: 32426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1977 View Post
No, Dirk didn't have a stellar series either, though I should point out that there was a glaring discrepancy between the two when it came to 4th quarter performance. If memory serves, Lebron scored in the teens in the 4th quarter in TOTAL over 6 games. Dirk, by contrast, scored some 50+ points total in the 4th quarters.

Which brings me to this point: while as I admit earlier, Dirk didn't have a great series, the reality is Dirk isn't held to the same standard. At best, he's a top 25-30 player all-time. Lebron, on the other hand, is drawing comparisons to Jordan, Magic, Bird, Oscar....the level of expectation is greater, hence the level of scrutiny greater when those expectations fall short. We are also talking about a guy who promised 8 championships, and said it would be easy.

So, while I admit that some of the talk and 'hate' on Lebron is excessive, the reality is Lebron created some of the expectation with his own words and actions, and failed to deliver when it really counted. Jordan let his game do the talking. So does Dirk.....and win or lose that's why I can respect both. Lebron James cannot, if he's honest with himself, look back at that series and say he laid it all on the line. Until he does that, he's not in the conversation with Jordan, or Bird, or Magic, or anyone in that upper tier of NBA greats.
All good points. We shall see how he does this year, another year to mesh with Wade etc. will be interesting to see how it translates to the playoffs. I'm very interested to see how the Bulls respond seeing how they didn't have a lot of playoff experience previously so looking for growth there.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:56 PM
 
297 posts, read 340,497 times
Reputation: 135
Bump. For a look back now that the season is over.

Bynum looks like a steal now at 30.

And Harden will definitely make a huge jump from not ranked to maybe top 25. Heck, I like him over Westbrook who is at 15 on this list.

Kobe should drop down to around 10.

Swap Duncan and Bynum.

DQ Ray Allen, Odom and Boozer.

Durant should be top 3.

Put Rondo and Parker in the 10-12 range.

Blake Griffin should probably be outside of the top 20.
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Old 06-05-2012, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,884 posts, read 5,181,787 times
Reputation: 2731
I think gasol drops way down on the list.

James Harden I think top 25.

Durant I agree top 3.

Melo and Amare down. What about our buddy Jeremy Lin, lol? I agree parker, rondo about the 12 range.

Odom, long gone. Put him on a reality show list.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Lewes, Delaware
3,466 posts, read 3,151,065 times
Reputation: 1876
I'd put Durant at 2, he isn't up to Lebrons defense yet, I really like Howard but the talk of Bynum for Howard straight up means Howard needs to drop or Bynum needs to come way up, although I think Howard is way better.

Wade was an all NBA 3rd team while I believe Kobe was a 1st team, so for me Kobe should be at least 5, or at least above Wade.
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Old 06-07-2012, 06:36 AM
 
3,522 posts, read 3,926,687 times
Reputation: 2170
Rondo is a top 10 player in the league.
I can't name 2 pgs better than him, in terms of overall game.

D. Rose and ????

(Please, for the love of everything holy, do not say CP3...I've never been impressed.)
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Old 06-07-2012, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Earth
3,653 posts, read 3,881,684 times
Reputation: 1802
I don't think Lebron is a definitive number 1 like he was 3 years ago. During his back to back 2009 and 2010 MVP seasons he was playing at an incredibly high level. I think Wade has tampered off a bit this year( at least he doesn't seem to bring it as consistently as before) so I'd have to drop him a little. Kobe, in terms of effectiveness, is out of top 5( I don't care what his scoring average is, 43% is borderline Allen Iverson level). Durant is nipping at Lebron's heel, while he doesn't have his all-around game he appears to have more of that alpha gene to put a team on his back in the clutch, demonstrated quite a few times this playoffs. I'm hoping OKC and Miami met in the finals, I'd love to see those two go at it.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:26 PM
 
Location: 3219'03.7"N 10643'55.9"W
8,115 posts, read 17,333,145 times
Reputation: 7287
Quote:
Originally Posted by dub dub II View Post
Rondo is a top 10 player in the league.
I can't name 2 pgs better than him, in terms of overall game.

D. Rose and ????

(Please, for the love of everything holy, do not say CP3...I've never been impressed.)
Deron Williams??? He was #9 I think on the original list.

Also, Jason Kidd nearing 40 years old, and #49 on the list.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
10,424 posts, read 12,427,921 times
Reputation: 4857
1.LeBron
2.Durant

3-7:
Bryant
Wade
Howard
Paul
Rose

8-10:
Rondo
Nowitzki
Duncan
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:42 PM
 
1,807 posts, read 2,891,389 times
Reputation: 1228
what a joke. dwight howard aka i cant shoot free throws aka if they foul me in a close game in the 4th my team will lose number 2?
i hate kobe more than jews and palestinians hate each other but he's top 3 in the league im not hearing anything else
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